RIP Lee Kwan Yew

[Valmy]

An extraordinary corrupt facade of democracy that only Marti could look at and say 'that functions fairly well."

It is India, chaos and mayhem is its natural state.

[Martinus]

For a country of that size, it is functioning fairly well. I, for one, would much rather live there than in China.

[grumbler]

An extraordinary corrupt facade of democracy that only Marti could look at and say 'that functions fairly well."

It is India, chaos and mayhem is its natural state.

That's kind of a blithe write-off of a billion lives. 

[grumbler]

For a country of that size, it is functioning fairly well. I, for one, would much rather live there than in China.

I'll recall this statement every time you get on your high horse about the disgusting way India treats its women.   I am sure the Chinese also would prefer that you live in India.

However, only a moron would applaud the current state of India, and only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of morons would rather be a typical Indian living in India today to a typical Chinese living in China today.  A typical Indian doesn't share Marti's delusions that Indian "democracy" is actually democratic, and that would be the only plausible thing that could be better-rated in India besides, perhaps, a more impartial legal system.

[Valmy]

That's kind of a blithe write-off of a billion lives. 

If that is how you interpreted that then I apologize, that was not my intent at all. I am a great admirer of India. That is a giant multi-national multi-ethnic state that shouldn't work, yet does. To me it represents the hope of the world.

The fact it is also kind of a basket case is part of its charm. India muddles through.

[grumbler]

If that is how you interpreted that then I apologize, that was not my intent at all. I am a great admirer of India. That is a giant multi-national multi-ethnic state that shouldn't work, yet does. To me it represents the hope of the world.

The fact it is also kind of a basket case is part of its charm. India muddles through.

I guess that I don't find corruption, widespread rape, honor killings and infanticide as charming as you do.

[Valmy]

I guess that I don't find corruption, widespread rape, honor killings and infanticide as charming as you do.

There is a bit more to India than just those things. And those are hardly unique to India in that part of the world. But yes everything about India is extremely...intense.

But anyway I thought you accused me of being all emo at being upset by life's outrages.

[The Brain]

I guess that I don't find corruption, widespread rape, honor killings and infanticide as charming as you do.

There is a bit more to India than just those things.

Public defecating.

[Valmy]

Public defecating.

See? Now that is character and charm lost to most of the world.

[grumbler]

There is a bit more to India than just those things. And those are hardly unique to India in that part of the world. But yes everything about India is extremely...intense.

I am not sure what a couple of tautologies and a self-evidently absurd assertion about "everything about India" adds to the discussion.  My argument was that Singapore is closer to true democracy than India.  You challenged that assertion.  I point out my reasons.  You don't point out any reasons, and instead argue about India's "charm" and "intens[ity]." 

Do you seriously believe that India today is closer to true democracy than Singapore?  If so, why?

But anyway I thought you accused me of being all emo at being upset by life's outrages.

I am not all that concerned about what you thought I accused you of, and just wonder:  is this the first entry in a non sequitur contest?

[Martinus]

A typical Indian doesn't share Marti's delusions that Indian "democracy" is actually democratic, and that would be the only plausible thing that could be better-rated in India besides, perhaps, a more impartial legal system.

And how the fuck do you know what a typical Indian thinks?

[Valmy]

I am not all that concerned about what you thought I accused you of, and just wonder:  is this the first entry in a non sequitur contest?

Well there went my attempt at friendly camaraderie.

I am not sure what a couple of tautologies and a self-evidently absurd assertion about "everything about India" adds to the discussion.  My argument was that Singapore is closer to true democracy than India.  You challenged that assertion.  I point out my reasons.  You don't point out any reasons, and instead argue about India's "charm" and "intens[ity]."

That is false. I was only curious about the assertion, I never questioned it. Your reasons are certainly reasons but beyond the corruption thing I do not see what they have to do with Democracy. There is nothing about Democracy that requires virtue.

Do you seriously believe that India today is closer to true democracy than Singapore?  If so, why?

Well they hold massive free-ish and fair-ish elections where somebody from outside the establishment recently won. But I am not sure what the definition of "true democracy" is.

[grumbler]

And how the fuck do you know what a typical Indian thinks?

Because I've talked to typical Indians, and to people who work with typical Indians on a daily basis.  I also read more about India than just reviews for the movie Gandhi.

[grumbler]

That is false. I was only curious about the assertion, I never questioned it. Your reasons are certainly reasons but beyond the corruption thing I do not see what they have to do with Democracy. There is nothing about Democracy that requires virtue.

I don't know what the capitalized "Democracy" is that you are referring to, here, so can't respond.  Maybe if you explained what you think it required for Democracy we can discuss that.

Well they hold massive free-ish and fair-ish elections where somebody from outside the establishment recently won. But I am not sure what the definition of "true democracy" is.

True democracy is "rule by the will of the people."  I don't think that this is the case in India, where massive vote-buying and the huge influence that landlords and employers have (especially in local elections) challenges whether the elections represent the will of the people at all, or just the will of the elites.

[Barrister]

You can critique the Indian state and government for lots of things (and you probably should), but not being a democracy is not one of them.

There have been several peaceful transitions of power between the BJP and Congress.