Why are we criminalizing childhood independence?

[Jacob]

... oh this is where the "cyberbullies" thing in the other thread came from.

[Berkut]

Here's a more pragmatic consideration for those of you that think bullying isn't a problem. By ignoring bullies, what are you teaching them about how it is acceptable to conduct oneself as an adult?

But the converse is also true. By combating bullies we are teaching their would-be victims about how it is acceptable to conduct oneself as an adult with no fear of reprisal or ostracism. Hence Perez Hilton and Chris Crocker, who clearly were not bullied enough as kids.

Wow, Mary actually believe that if people just didn't bully each other, we would be worse off.

He is actually arguing that not only is bullying not such a bad thing, NOT bullying is the real problem!

You are literally arguing that some kid beating the shit out of some other kid because they are asian, or has a speech impediment, or simply doesn't look like everyone else, or, yes, because they are gay, is something that should be encouraged in order to convince the kid being abused to stop being different.

That we need to "teach would be victims" that it is not acceptable to "conduct oneself" as they actually are.

You are actually taking the Onion article seriously.

[garbon]

Wow, Mary actually believe that if people just didn't bully each other, we would be worse off.

Talk about a cheap shot!

[Martinus]

Here's a more pragmatic consideration for those of you that think bullying isn't a problem. By ignoring bullies, what are you teaching them about how it is acceptable to conduct oneself as an adult?

But the converse is also true. By combating bullies we are teaching their would-be victims about how it is acceptable to conduct oneself as an adult with no fear of reprisal or ostracism. Hence Perez Hilton and Chris Crocker, who clearly were not bullied enough as kids.

Wow, Mary actually believe that if people just didn't bully each other, we would be worse off.

He is actually arguing that not only is bullying not such a bad thing, NOT bullying is the real problem!

You are literally arguing that some kid beating the shit out of some other kid because they are asian, or has a speech impediment, or simply doesn't look like everyone else, or, yes, because they are gay, is something that should be encouraged in order to convince the kid being abused to stop being different.

That we need to "teach would be victims" that it is not acceptable to "conduct oneself" as they actually are.

You are actually taking the Onion article seriously.

I never said anything about beating. You are sailing those boundaries between verbal harassment, beating up and maimimg/rape with a great ease, Berkut.

[Martinus]

Wow, Mary actually believe that if people just didn't bully each other, we would be worse off.

Talk about a cheap shot!

I guess Berkut is happy to cyberbully me for being gay if it fits his fascist agenda.

[Warspite]

I do find it ironic the suggestion that to counter the pussification of society we need to encourage more people to be cnuts.

[Martinus]

The video proof of what happens if there isn't enough bullying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

[Berkut]

Here's a more pragmatic consideration for those of you that think bullying isn't a problem. By ignoring bullies, what are you teaching them about how it is acceptable to conduct oneself as an adult?

But the converse is also true. By combating bullies we are teaching their would-be victims about how it is acceptable to conduct oneself as an adult with no fear of reprisal or ostracism. Hence Perez Hilton and Chris Crocker, who clearly were not bullied enough as kids.

Wow, Mary actually believe that if people just didn't bully each other, we would be worse off.

He is actually arguing that not only is bullying not such a bad thing, NOT bullying is the real problem!

You are literally arguing that some kid beating the shit out of some other kid because they are asian, or has a speech impediment, or simply doesn't look like everyone else, or, yes, because they are gay, is something that should be encouraged in order to convince the kid being abused to stop being different.

That we need to "teach would be victims" that it is not acceptable to "conduct oneself" as they actually are.

You are actually taking the Onion article seriously.

I never said anything about beating. You are sailing those boundaries between verbal harassment, beating up and maimimg/rape with a great ease, Berkut.

Bullying certianly includes physical violence and intimidation. You cannot condone bullying, but exclude the parts that are actually what people who are concerned about bullying object to, which is the physical attacks and over the top intimidation and abuse.

We are talking about bullying, not kids harassing each other.

[Berkut]

I do find it ironic the suggestion that to counter the pussification of society we need to encourage more people to be cnuts.

'I imagine for Marty it is more a matter of "Wait, the way I act and acted when I was a kid makes me a douchebag???? NOOOOO! I was not the cunt, it was everyone else!!!!"

[Martinus]

We are talking about bullying, not kids harassing each other.

Please scan through all my posts in this thread and tell me where have I ever condoned anything other than verbal harassment. In fact I made that point expressly several times and, where talking about more specific forms, I was talking about cyber bullying (which is also a form of verbal harassment). You really are fast to jump to conclusions.

[Martinus]

I do find it ironic the suggestion that to counter the pussification of society we need to encourage more people to be cnuts.

'I imagine for Marty it is more a matter of "Wait, the way I act and acted when I was a kid makes me a douchebag???? NOOOOO! I was not the cunt, it was everyone else!!!!"

I was not a bully as a kid. As I said, I was an awkward, nerdy, gay kid who sucked at sports. I also had a relatively large head and a mild speech impediment. Because of all of this I was given nicknames and the like but I do not view it as something traumatic - that's my entire position in this thread. I was able to get out of it because I had a sense of humour and because I became friends with the most punk rock kid in school.

I think you are really project a lot of things unto me here. I'm sorry your childhood was different but it is not my fault.

[Berkut]

We are talking about bullying, not kids harassing each other.

Please scan through all my posts in this thread and tell me where have I ever condoned anything other than verbal harassment. In fact I made that point expressly several times and, where talking about more specific forms, I was talking about cyber bullying (which is also a form of verbal harassment). You really are fast to jump to conclusions.

If it is verbal harassment that rises to the level of bullying, then you are a cunt for tolerating or encouraging it, and you were a cunt for engaging in it when you were the bully. Stuff like telling someone to kill themselves, for example.

If you are not talking about that level of harassment, then we are not talking about bullying at all, by definition, so you are just being a dick for trying to confuse the topic. *We* are talking about bullying, not a couple buddies giving each other shit.

[Jacob]

To my mind, what it boils down to is this: bullying is, in its most basic form, a pathological version of social pressure that every society has (indeed, ought to have). In every society, there is pressure to conform, to not exceed certain boundaries - indeed, the law is the ultimate form this takes.

What bullying does, is use this mechanism, not for enforcing boundaries that make sense functionally, but for the amusement of or to increase the social standing of the bully. The bully may well *appear* to be merely enforcing social conformity, but that is not his or her actual motive - what they are doing, is using social conformity to their advantage. Picking on a kid who has "queer" tastes or behaviours (say) will not necessarily cease if that kid outwardly conforms: it may well continue, because the real purpose is not to enforce conformity, but to build up the bully.

What makes this a problem isn't necessarily the bully him or herself, but the fact that the bully acts with tacit or express approval of the other members of their society (that is, other kids). He or she is playing to an audience. That is why kids cannot easily simply ignore the bullying - to do so would cement their status as an outsider in the society that matters to them.   

In some ways, if bullying was merely a matter of physical fighting, it is easier to deal with - see all the posters claiming that they basically sorted out bullies by simply fighting back. It is a lot more difficult to deal with someone trolling you - you can't just fight it out.

I think this is very apt.

[Martinus]

We are talking about bullying, not kids harassing each other.

Please scan through all my posts in this thread and tell me where have I ever condoned anything other than verbal harassment. In fact I made that point expressly several times and, where talking about more specific forms, I was talking about cyber bullying (which is also a form of verbal harassment). You really are fast to jump to conclusions.

If it is verbal harassment that rises to the level of bullying, then you are a cunt for tolerating or encouraging it, and you were a cunt for engaging in it when you were the bully. Stuff like telling someone to kill themselves, for example.

If you are not talking about that level of harassment, then we are not talking about bullying at all, by definition, so you are just being a dick for trying to confuse the topic. *We* are talking about bullying, not a couple buddies giving each other shit.

Isn't the "rises to the level of bullying" a bit of an issue that is open to debate? Wouldn't that depend on the sensitivity of the addressee?

[CountDeMoney]

I was not a bully as a kid. As I said, I was an awkward, nerdy, gay kid who sucked at sports. I also had a relatively large head and a mild speech impediment. Because of all of this I was given nicknames and the like but I do not view it as something traumatic - that's my entire position in this thread. I was able to get out of it because I had a sense of humour and because I became friends with the most punk rock kid in school.

And now you're making the world pay as a mergers and acquisitions attorney.