The Labor Pains Megathread

[Eddie Teach]

Or you should check out the study I linked earlier. Majority of trips in the UK are taken by car(graph on page 13). The proportion goes up even higher when looking at mileage, naturally.

[Jacob]

If there is no demand in a particular job to work weekends, then nobody will employ weekend-workers anyway.

That makes about as much sense as saying that if there was a demand for slaves or indentured servants then laws prohibiting that should be abolished. It is just silly to argue that there shouldnt be minimum employment standards because the market will regulate everything perfectly.

Rather the argument is, as a matter of good public policy, what regulations should be put in place.

Yeah. Listening to Yi and Tamas it's become clear how intellectually vacuous the dogmatic free market position is when turned into a political philosophy rather than a useful economic tool.

[Tamas]

If there is no demand in a particular job to work weekends, then nobody will employ weekend-workers anyway.

That makes about as much sense as saying that if there was a demand for slaves or indentured servants then laws prohibiting that should be abolished. It is just silly to argue that there shouldnt be minimum employment standards because the market will regulate everything perfectly.

Rather the argument is, as a matter of good public policy, what regulations should be put in place.

Did you really just put an equal sign between weekend shift and slavery?

I actually typed the explanation of the difference here but then realised I will not sink that low. I mean come on.

[Tamas]

If there is no demand in a particular job to work weekends, then nobody will employ weekend-workers anyway.

That makes about as much sense as saying that if there was a demand for slaves or indentured servants then laws prohibiting that should be abolished. It is just silly to argue that there shouldnt be minimum employment standards because the market will regulate everything perfectly.

Rather the argument is, as a matter of good public policy, what regulations should be put in place.

Yeah. Listening to Yi and Tamas it's become clear how intellectually vacuous the dogmatic free market position is when turned into a political philosophy rather than a useful economic tool.

Yes. Letting willing people earn money on weekends equals legalisation of slavery.

[Jacob]

Yes. Letting willing people earn money on weekends equals legalisation of slavery.

Have you read the thread?

[Tamas]

Yes. Letting willing people earn money on weekends equals legalisation of slavery.

Have you read the thread?

There can be a debate about what kind of regulation there should be for weekend word. But the argument against "next to nothing" is not "well then you are fine with slavery"

[Josquius]

Its nothing to do with ability to afford a car. Its more aboit the cost of accomodation.
The poor have no choice but to live in the arse end of nowhere and drive if they want to go anywhere.
If you have a decent amount of money though then you can afford to live somewhere with decent rail links, or if youre very lucky/wealthy, somewhere you can walk or bike to work and the city centre.
The rich also like to live in nice places in the countryside or, if they live in cities, they dont care about having a frivelous and unneeded toy.

People in the middle usually are able to afford a car without it damaging their finances too much. But in the 21st century if you can avoid that hastle then all the better.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/243957/nts2012-01.pdf
If you scroll down to page 18, there's a chart showing average distance traveled per year and the method used. Each quintile travels more miles by car in a year than the ones below it. Also, each travels far more miles by car than by the other methods of transportation combined.

The important point there is that it doesn't divide by age and the overall number of car journeys is sharply in decline. Give it time. As the old people die off and/or stop driving and millenials and touchies (whatever they're called) become the primary adult age group things will look very different.

For wealthy people driving more- I think there we need to see median miles per day rather than miles per year.  There's a big difference between living a sub-human car-based life and going on road trips in the holidays.

[crazy canuck]

If there is no demand in a particular job to work weekends, then nobody will employ weekend-workers anyway.

That makes about as much sense as saying that if there was a demand for slaves or indentured servants then laws prohibiting that should be abolished. It is just silly to argue that there shouldnt be minimum employment standards because the market will regulate everything perfectly.

Rather the argument is, as a matter of good public policy, what regulations should be put in place.

Did you really just put an equal sign between weekend shift and slavery?

Tamas, I am glad to see that you see some limit on your theory that government should not regulate employment conditions. Prebumably you now agree that the discussion is really what regulations should be put in place as a matter of good public policy rather than the rather unhelpful argument that if there is a demand there should be a supply.

[Jacob]

Yes. Letting willing people earn money on weekends equals legalisation of slavery.

Have you read the thread?

There can be a debate about what kind of regulation there should be for weekend word. But the argument against "next to nothing" is not "well then you are fine with slavery"

And no one has made that argument

[Tamas]

If there is no demand in a particular job to work weekends, then nobody will employ weekend-workers anyway.

That makes about as much sense as saying that if there was a demand for slaves or indentured servants then laws prohibiting that should be abolished. It is just silly to argue that there shouldnt be minimum employment standards because the market will regulate everything perfectly.

Rather the argument is, as a matter of good public policy, what regulations should be put in place.

Did you really just put an equal sign between weekend shift and slavery?

Tamas, I am glad to see that you see some limit on your theory that government should not regulate employment conditions. Prebumably you now agree that the discussion is really what regulations should be put in place as a matter of good public policy rather than the rather unhelpful argument that if there is a demand there should be a supply.

But ban on slavery is NOT a workplace regulation

[crazy canuck]

Yes. Letting willing people earn money on weekends equals legalisation of slavery.

Have you read the thread?

There can be a debate about what kind of regulation there should be for weekend word. But the argument against "next to nothing" is not "well then you are fine with slavery"

But your argument is that policy should be driven by market economic demand alone.  If you follow that logic to its logical economic conclusion there should be no laws regulating any employment conditions.  Once you acknowledge that other facts must also be taken into consideration then we enter the realm of reasonable policy debate.

[crazy canuck]

But ban on slavery is NOT a workplace regulation

  It is the most basic of workplace regulation - workers must be paid a wage and must not be compelled to perform a contract of employment.

[Tamas]

But ban on slavery is NOT a workplace regulation

  It is the most basic of workplace regulation - workers must be paid a wage and must not be compelled to perform a contract of employment.

Nice troll.

I simply refuse to believe you don't know the difference between slavery and sub-standard working conditions.

[Jacob]

Nice troll.

I simply refuse to believe you don't know the difference between slavery and sub-standard working conditions.

I, on the other hand, can easily believe that you are missing the point entirely.

But I'll try once more:

Using your arguments of freedom to contract and allowing supply and demand, where and how do you draw the line between slavery and sub-standard working conditions?

[crazy canuck]

But ban on slavery is NOT a workplace regulation

  It is the most basic of workplace regulation - workers must be paid a wage and must not be compelled to perform a contract of employment.

Nice troll.

I simply refuse to believe you don't know the difference between slavery and sub-standard working conditions.

Ok