Berkely students petition to stop Bill Maher from delivering commencement addres

[The Minsky Moment]

That is nonsense.  It is certainly no more central to Islam than to Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

Christianity has one golden rule.  Islam has seven pillars of faith.  Can't get more central than that.

Seven pillars?
You'll need to elaborate on that. 

[Eddie Teach]

First rule of Christianity- Love God with all your heart and mind and soul and strength. Second, Love thy neighbor as thyself. So it should really be the Silver Rule. 

[Admiral Yi]

The golden rule isn't originated by Christianity, and Islam even has its own formulation of it.

So what?  Mohammed didn't invent fasting either.

[Jacob]

The golden rule isn't originated by Christianity, and Islam even has its own formulation of it.

So what?  Mohammed didn't invent fasting either.

If someone says - as it seemed you did - that Christianity is substantially different from Islam because Christianity has the Golden Rule and Islam doesn't, pointing out that both religions have the Golden Rule is a pretty solid refutation of that point.

[frunk]

So what?  Mohammed didn't invent fasting either.

Then why are you comparing something that is in both religions as if it was only in one of them?

[The Minsky Moment]

The other question is which pillar of Islam Admiral Yi finds so offensive.

[Admiral Yi]

If someone says - as it seemed you did - that Christianity is substantially different from Islam because Christianity has the Golden Rule and Islam doesn't, pointing out that both religions have the Golden Rule is a pretty solid refutation of that point.

It might be if I had said that, which I didn't. 

I said the seven pillars of faith are the central components of Islam.  One of them is jihad, armed struggle to bring those outside the House of Submission within the House of Submission.  There is no eighth pillar that states: "but only conquer others if you would like to be conquered yourself."

There is nothing remotely similar in the teachings of Jesus as recounted in the Gospels.  Exactly the opposite as a matter of fact.

[Jacob]

The other question is which pillar of Islam Admiral Yi finds so offensive.

• Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
• Establishment of the daily prayers;
• Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
• Self-purification through fasting; and
• The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.

http://www.islam101.com/dawah/pillars.html

[The Brain]

I didn't invent the 2 hour lunch.

[Jacob]

It might be if I had said that, which I didn't. 

I said the seven pillars of faith are the central components of Islam.  One of them is jihad, armed struggle to bring those outside the House of Submission within the House of Submission.  There is no eighth pillar that states: "but only conquer others if you would like to be conquered yourself."

There is nothing remotely similar in the teachings of Jesus as recounted in the Gospels.  Exactly the opposite as a matter of fact.

Ah, I see. So if Muslims only had five pillars - none of which were Jihad - then it'd be cool?

As an aside - I've frequently been told that Jihad means "utmost struggle" and can just as easily be applied to things like looking after the needy as to warfare. You know... like being a moral crusader doesn't necessarily mean that you support invading the Middle East and installing a Christian ruler on the throne in the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

[Barrister]

I wonder what's so controversial about the notion that different religions with different Holy Books might influence their believers in different ways.

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

That doesn't mean that Muslims are inherently violent, or that Christians are inherently peaceful, but there is a difference there.

[Jacob]

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

Yeah, I don't think there's a Christian equivalent to the Muslim concept of crusading, right?

[Barrister]

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

Yeah, I don't think there's a Christian equivalent to the Muslim concept of crusading, right?

There's nothing in the Bible about Crusading.

In fact the word is never used.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=crusade&qs_version=NIV

[Malthus]

I wonder what's so controversial about the notion that different religions with different Holy Books might influence their believers in different ways.

I think Yi probably went too far when he tries to compare conquest in Islam to marxism (really, it's a tortured analogy that  should not have been attempted), but the point still stands - there is an emphasis of jihad and struggle against nonbelievers in Islam that has no comparable notion in Christianity.

That doesn't mean that Muslims are inherently violent, or that Christians are inherently peaceful, but there is a difference there.

I guess the counter-observation is that the details of theology don't seem to translate or map into differences in actual practice - Jesus meek and mild, turn-the-other-cheek stuff is all very well, but Christianity isn't really notable for its pacifism.

Also, present-day sects notable for pacifism and good works often had a very violent and fanatic past, without much change in actual doctrine.

Who could be more harmless than the Mennonites?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_Rebellion

What about the Aga Khan? All he does is fund charities and stuff. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

[The Minsky Moment]

I said the seven pillars of faith are the central components of Islam.  One of them is jihad, armed struggle to bring those outside the House of Submission within the House of Submission. 

There are five pillars of Islam.  Jihad is not among them.  Nor is the concept of Dar Al-Islam and Dar Al-Harb which is not even in the Qu'ran.  The concept of jihad predates the Dars by quite a bit and the meaning is broader and more complex.   

There is nothing remotely similar in the teachings of Jesus as recounted in the Gospels.  Exactly the opposite as a matter of fact.

Not so:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

The Gospels are full of dire threats of death and destruction to be visited in the those who do not accept the teachings of Jesus.