Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[derspiess]

She challenges my view points. That doesn't mean I have to go around agreeing with everything that spills from her lips (like her hatred of Hillary!).

I didn't say you had to agree with her all the time.  I just can't remember any time you have agreed with her.

[garbon]

She challenges my view points. That doesn't mean I have to go around agreeing with everything that spills from her lips (like her hatred of Hillary!).

I didn't say you had to agree with her all the time.  I just can't remember any time you have agreed with her.

I don't disagree with how she has outlined her date rape stance in the past. I also agreed with her initial impression of Sarah Palin.

[grumbler]

Having been a defender of "no means no" and that "date rape is rape", I thoroughly disagreed with her quote.  It was just that grumbles and The Brain acted as if they didn't know who she was, when she's been referenced numerous times here on Languish.

I was commenting on a piece of writing, not a person.  My comments applied whether she is someone you know a lot about, or only a little about.

[CountDeMoney]

Now here's a rape story derspiess can get behind.  PAY FOR YOUR OWN WHORE KITS

b]Billing for rape: Louisiana sex assault victims often face hefty bills for medical care
Rape victims billed for medical expenses[/b]

In Louisiana, victims of sex crimes often are billed for forensic medical exams and related care even though state and federal guidelines require many of these services be provided at no cost to the victim.

http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf/2014/09/louisiana_rape_victims_often_b.html

[merithyn]

I'd be interested to hear a female poster's take on this.  Meri, perhaps.

I was raped twice in high school. I told no one; not even my best friend. I certainly didn't go to the police or the school authorities. I didn't believe that anyone would believe me, and I'm fairly certain that I made the right decision. Not for the pricks who raped me, but for myself. My dad was a lot like legbiter, and I doubt even he would have believed me. No way I would have put myself through all of that just to tarnish my name for no gain.

Was she raped? I don't know, and no one here does, either. Did she go about this ass-backwards? Yes, she did. I'm not sure that that determines that she's making this up, though. Sometimes, it takes knowing that someone will hurt others unless you speak up before you're willing to take that step. That could be the case here.

At a certain point, though, this whole thing took on a life of its own, and she's now along for the ride. She's getting attention - which she wanted - and fame, which I doubt she expected. She is bringing attention to campus sexual assault, which most people agree is a major concern. I don't necessarily agree with how she's going about it, but I can't argue with the results. I just wish that her case had been handled better so that those who already believe that 19 out of 20 claims of rape are made up wouldn't have an easy thing to point out to dismiss the real meat of the matter.

[Jacob]

I don't think her case having been handled better would have prevented the people who believe that 19 out of 20 rape allegations are fake from finding some other reason to dismiss it.

I mean, I may be wrong, but that's what I believe.

Also... that's some heavy stuff to drop in the thread Meri. Relevant, but heavy.

[merithyn]

I don't think her case having been handled better would have prevented the people who believe that 19 out of 20 rape allegations are fake from finding some other reason to dismiss it.

I mean, I may be wrong, but that's what I believe.

Probably not, but I'd rather not hand them the ammo gift wrapped, you know?

Also... that's some heavy stuff to drop in the thread Meri. Relevant, but heavy.

It's not news here on Languish. I've mentioned in the past what happened to me. It's part of why I tend to stay silent in these threads. My experiences are very different from pretty much anyone here, and I know that they color my perceptions.

I couldn't imagine telling the truth that I was raped when it happened, so the idea that someone would lie about it is... inconceivable to me. I know it happens - I've seen the cases hit the news - but it seems unreal. It took me a long time before I could admit it out loud, but once I did, I didn't shut up about it. That's how I coped. I can see this girl doing the same thing. Kind of a "If I'm going to admit this, then damnit, you're all going to know that I'm admitting that this happened to me!" It's a bizarre way to deal with it, but reason and logic aren't a part of processing rape.

And you've all hit the nail on the head about rape. It's one of those crimes that is slippery. It's almost always he said/she said. Even most women aren't 100% sure if it's rape at first, because most rapes are people they know. Did I lead him on? Did I imply yes? What did I do to bring this on? It's how we're trained to think. We're the one apologizing for being raped. Well, I let him kiss me, so I guess it makes sense that he expected sex. I told him no, but I must have made him think I really meant yes.

Yeah, those really are all of the thoughts that went through my mind. Both times. Then I would teeter the other direction, hating him for putting me through what he did, hating the situation that I found myself in, hating that I felt too scared to tell anyone. Then back to blaming myself, telling myself that it wasn't that bad, that it could have been worse. It couldn't be rape because he didn't beat me up, too.

It's hard to explain all of that to people who are looking for a logical reaction to an illogical situation. I empathize with this girl because I can see how she could end up in the situation that she's in. She might be lying, but we'll never really know. What really saddens me about this whole situation is that the way that it's been played out, what girl from Columbia in her right mind is going to ever come forward if they're raped? According to this girl, the police are evil and worthless, the University is incompetent and are more concerned with their reputation, and ultimately, unless you're willing to make a spectacle of yourself, no one will bother to listen to you. That, more than anything, bothers me.

[grumbler]

Where did we get the idea that there are "people who believe that 19 out of 20 rape allegations are fake?"  From her self-serving account?

Interesting how some people can take a completely unsubstantiated/hearsay and wholly implausible claim and proceed to use that as a "fact" in their arguments.

[merithyn]

Where did we get the idea that there are "people who believe that 19 out of 20 rape allegations are fake?"  From her self-serving account?

Interesting how some people can take a completely unsubstantiated/hearsay and wholly implausible claim and proceed to use that as a "fact" in their arguments.

I never said that it was fact. I said that those who are in that boat - and there are plenty, with or without a recording of a cop saying it - are going to use cases like this to support their own claims that false rape claims far outnumber real rape claims. I'm sorry if that didn't come across.

[grumbler]

I never said that it was fact. I said that those who are in that boat - and there are plenty, with or without a recording of a cop saying it - are going to use cases like this to support their own claims that false rape claims far outnumber real rape claims. I'm sorry if that didn't come across.

I don't know of anyone, anywhere, who has said, on tape or off it, that false rapes outnumber real rapes 19-1.  I think that it is statistically possible that such people exist, but then it is statistically possible that all kinds of absurd positions are held by someone, somewhere.

What needs to change in public perception isn't that false rape claims outnumber real rape claims - I don't even know of anyone who holds that more moderate position - it is that false sexual assault (not even rape) claims are a sufficient percentage of total sexual assault claims that action against alleged sexual misconduct should be handled only by the criminal justice system, or that administrative action against alleged perps of sexual misconduct should use the criminal justice standards of proof.

The answer to the college sexual assault epidemic won't come when someone convinces those who allegedly believe that "false rape claims outnumber real rape claims" otherwise, because I don't think that there are many if any people who need to be convinced.  It will come when college men and women understand that there are sexual behaviors that a university simply cannot tolerate and remain a university.  There will always be cases that remain ambiguous, but the stance of the university, and the duties of the students to combat sexual assault, should not be ambiguous.  No one should be allowed to believe that they can conduct or condone sexual assault, and no one should be allowed to believe that they can overturn due process by carrying around a mattress.

[merithyn]

I never said that it was fact. I said that those who are in that boat - and there are plenty, with or without a recording of a cop saying it - are going to use cases like this to support their own claims that false rape claims far outnumber real rape claims. I'm sorry if that didn't come across.

I don't know of anyone, anywhere, who has said, on tape or off it, that false rapes outnumber real rapes 19-1.  I think that it is statistically possible that such people exist, but then it is statistically possible that all kinds of absurd positions are held by someone, somewhere.

What needs to change in public perception isn't that false rape claims outnumber real rape claims - I don't even know of anyone who holds that more moderate position - it is that false sexual assault (not even rape) claims are a sufficient percentage of total sexual assault claims that action against alleged sexual misconduct should be handled only by the criminal justice system, or that administrative action against alleged perps of sexual misconduct should use the criminal justice standards of proof.

The answer to the college sexual assault epidemic won't come when someone convinces those who allegedly believe that "false rape claims outnumber real rape claims" otherwise, because I don't think that there are many if any people who need to be convinced.  It will come when college men and women understand that there are sexual behaviors that a university simply cannot tolerate and remain a university.  There will always be cases that remain ambiguous, but the stance of the university, and the duties of the students to combat sexual assault, should not be ambiguous.  No one should be allowed to believe that they can conduct or condone sexual assault, and no one should be allowed to believe that they can overturn due process by carrying around a mattress.

Okay.

[Jacob]

Okay.

Basically, what happened is that due process determined that there wasn't enough evidence that a rape had happened to take action; therefore - as a matter of objective fact - a rape did not happen. If anyone thinks a rape may have happened, including the woman who alleged that she was raped, they are objectively wrong.

[derspiess]

Okay.

[Berkut]

Okay

[DGuller]

Okay?