Columbia student carrying mattress until school expels her rapist

[Eddie Teach]

/picture of naked baby swimming in a pool

[grumbler]

/picture of naked baby swimming in a pool

/sound of theme from Jaws.

[Eddie Teach]

 

[Martinus]

I think you failed to understand The Brain's particular brand of humour. 

Although given your tendency to nitpick about imprecise language, I think you should have.

I did miss the amusing wording that Brain was responding to.  Glad to see you can't pass up the chance for an ad hom, though.

How is that an ad hom? Ad hominem is a logical fallacy when an argument of a person is being dismissed not because of merits, but because of personal qualities of the person making an argument. A personal joke/jab made outside of a debate is not an ad hom. Besides, are you saying you do not tend to nitpick over imprecisions of language?

[grumbler]

How is that an ad hom? Ad hominem is a logical fallacy when an argument of a person is being dismissed not because of merits, but because of personal qualities of the person making an argument. A personal joke/jab made outside of a debate is not an ad hom. Besides, are you saying you do not tend to nitpick over imprecisions of language?

"Although given your tendency to nitpick about imprecise language, I think you should have" is an ad hom.   It references not my argument/statement, but an alleged personal characteristic.    A personal jab outside the debate doesn't reference a statement made in the debate.  "You missed the point, and your father is a hamster" is a personal jab. "You missed the point because your father is a hamster" is an ad hom.

[Savonarola]

So, to count down on campus rape,

I'm Casey Kasem, your host, counting down on your favorite campus rapes, coast to coast.  Now back to the countdown.  This week's pick, coming in at number four, before landing on our charts was the starting quarterback for Florida State University...

[jimmy olsen]

So, to count down on campus rape,

I'm Casey Kasem, your host, counting down on your favorite campus rapes, coast to coast.  Now back to the countdown.  This week's pick, coming in at number four, before landing on our charts was the starting quarterback for Florida State University...

Should have been cut down of course

[Rasputin]

So, to count down on campus rape,

I'm Casey Kasem, your host, counting down on your favorite campus rapes, coast to coast.  Now back to the countdown.  This week's pick, coming in at number four, before landing on our charts was the starting quarterback for Florida State University...

Speaking of a guy falsely accused of rape by a coed with an agenda...

[garbon]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0

[grumbler]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0

Yeah, the rapist appears to be getting away with the crime (and the Heisman), but I'd argue that the handling of his case is more an example of police and university officials not wanting to rock the Heisman and National Championship vote rather than because they thought the woman was lying about being raped.

[derspiess]

#bringbackourcrablegs

[Rasputin]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0

Yeah, the rapist appears to be getting away with the crime (and the Heisman), but I'd argue that the handling of his case is more an example of police and university officials not wanting to rock the Heisman and National Championship vote rather than because they thought the woman was lying about being raped.

have you actually reviewed the investigation file, which is a public record under florida law and available on line?

I don't know what actually happened that night but I know that from my review of the primary source materials available to the state attorney,  I concluded that there was significant reasonable doubt given the victim's three differing versions of events all of which were inconsistent with the forensic evidence which forensic evidence was in fact was consistent with the accused's version of events.

police corruption and cover up in small southern college town does sell more papers in New York though

discount my opinions as a seminole if you wish but I think on the other side of the bias ledger I had a daughter in undergrad at fsu at the time this all occured and think i looked at the investigative material with an objective lawyer's eye

[Malthus]

Huh? No.

Because she very obviously does not fear a "victim stigma" now, makes it more likely that she did not fear a "victim stigma" then, because she's not the sort of person that fears a "victim stigma".

This bit of information goes into the cost/benefit analysis as to whether she would have been deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making an accusation.

While it is rational to presume that most people are strongly deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making accusations (false or true) as a generality, that generality does not hold true in her case.

Not responding to my point - that there's a difference between backing off dealing with something under one set of circumstances and embracing dealing with them under a different set of circumstances - by restating your argument does not make it more convincing.

I don't really think cost/benefit analysis is an appropriate term to use when dealing with this type of case, but even so - there's a different cost/benefit analysis for her then and now. In one situation she felt alone, that nothing would come out of it, and that the process would be painful; now she's found away to make the process not painful - empowering even - and there are some positive things associated with it.

She's found a way to turn the cost/benefit analysis of pursuing this into a positive; you are taking that as proof that she is likely lying. I remain unconvinced.

I'm not taking her current 'turning this into a positive' as proof she is lying; I'm taking it as proof she does not have the cultural attitute, found in many men and women, that exposing her victimhood to the public puts her under a stigma and so is to be avoided - the very point of data BB was alluding to when he said that, as a generality, he believes rape accusations.   

She's the same person then as now, so it is a reasonable, allbeit rebuttable, assumption that her attitudes towards such issues are reasonably consistent. Proposing otherwise I think requires something in the way of proof. 

[garbon]

Huh? No.

Because she very obviously does not fear a "victim stigma" now, makes it more likely that she did not fear a "victim stigma" then, because she's not the sort of person that fears a "victim stigma".

This bit of information goes into the cost/benefit analysis as to whether she would have been deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making an accusation.

While it is rational to presume that most people are strongly deterred by fear of a "victim stigma" from making accusations (false or true) as a generality, that generality does not hold true in her case.

Not responding to my point - that there's a difference between backing off dealing with something under one set of circumstances and embracing dealing with them under a different set of circumstances - by restating your argument does not make it more convincing.

I don't really think cost/benefit analysis is an appropriate term to use when dealing with this type of case, but even so - there's a different cost/benefit analysis for her then and now. In one situation she felt alone, that nothing would come out of it, and that the process would be painful; now she's found away to make the process not painful - empowering even - and there are some positive things associated with it.

She's found a way to turn the cost/benefit analysis of pursuing this into a positive; you are taking that as proof that she is likely lying. I remain unconvinced.

I'm not taking her current 'turning this into a positive' as proof she is lying; I'm taking it as proof she does not have the cultural attitute, found in many men and women, that exposing her victimhood to the public puts her under a stigma and so is to be avoided - the very point of data BB was alluding to when he said that, as a generality, he believes rape accusations.   

She's the same person then as now, so it is a reasonable, allbeit rebuttable, assumption that her attitudes towards such issues are reasonably consistent. Proposing otherwise I think requires something in the way of proof. 

You mean like how when first decided to come forward she stated she hadn't because she been afraid/ashamed and hadn't even wanted to mention it to family or friends?

[grumbler]

have you actually reviewed the investigation file, which is a public record under florida law and available on line?

I don't know what actually happened that night but I know that from my review of the primary source materials available to the state attorney,  I concluded that there was significant reasonable doubt given the victim's three differing versions of events all of which were inconsistent with the forensic evidence which forensic evidence was in fact was consistent with the accused's version of events.

police corruption and cover up in small southern college town does sell more papers in New York though

discount my opinions as a seminole if you wish but I think on the other side of the bias ledger I had a daughter in undergrad at fsu at the time this all occured and think i looked at the investigative material with an objective lawyer's eye

Yep, I looked at the same data, and, unsurprisingly, came to a different conclusion than you.  However, the investigative blunders have far more to do with the investigative process than the investigative product, given that the product was a result of the flawed process.