San Diego School District's New 18-Ton Armored Vehicle Creates Stir

[grumbler]

What ever happened to the idea of scrapping shit you don't need anymore?  Since so many are still in serviceable condition, I'm sure the DOD could get a decent ($0.10 - $0.15 on the dollar) deal selling these to someone to strip down and sell for parts.  Hell, it probably has parts in common with the deuce, LAV, and HEMTT; these things could be broken down to provide spares for those vehicles.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that Congress doesn't allow the salvage of parts from these, for fear of losing jobs (and political contributions) from the companies that produce the LAV or deuce parts...

Other than that, you are correct (as is Berkut).  When idiots start toppling these MRAPs onto crowds of bystanders, the backlash is going to be severe, and I'm betting the lawsuits are filed against DoD and the vehicle manufacturers, more than against the likes of the San Diego School District.

[garbon]

I was talking to cop friend about this and he said that these vehicles are usually for use by a group of police stations or a region, but that they have to be acquired and placed at one police station. So it looks like some town has an armored car but it's really meant for use by all the surrounding towns. I think that at least makes more sense than thinking that a town, especially some small, quiet town, needs this stuff just for them.

The issue is that no towns, or groups of towns, actually need an armoured car for anything. Have they ever actually been used for anything, other than scaring the local population into thinking the cops have gone apeshit crazy? 

Yep.

[The Brain]

Who do you think we are?

[Malthus]

Except for when they do, like in riot control situation or when gunmen have taken hostages and are shooting at on the street.  Banks use armored cars, don't they?  Banks don't strike me as buying frivolous things.

Huh? Banks hire companies who have armoured cars to carry around large amounts of easily-stolen cash. Police should not be carrying around large amounts of cash, unless they are on the take.

I can't think of a single instance of when an actual armored car would be useful for crowd control, other than to create a very negative photo-op. As for gunmen shooting stuff - has there been any actual cases in which armoured cars have proved necessary or useful for dealing with this menace?

[frunk]

As for gunmen shooting stuff - has there been any actual cases in which armoured cars have proved necessary or useful for dealing with this menace?

Pack the whole town inside the armored car, everybody is safe.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I was talking to cop friend about this and he said that these vehicles are usually for use by a group of police stations or a region, but that they have to be acquired and placed at one police station. So it looks like some town has an armored car but it's really meant for use by all the surrounding towns. I think that at least makes more sense than thinking that a town, especially some small, quiet town, needs this stuff just for them.

The issue is that no towns, or groups of towns, actually need an armoured car for anything. Have they ever actually been used for anything, other than scaring the local population into thinking the cops have gone apeshit crazy? 

Yep.

They are used to mkae badass videos of SWAT teams roaring around a track.

[DGuller]

Police should not be carrying around large amounts of cash, unless they are on the take.

Depends on how many drivers with cash they pulled over during their shift.

[garbon]

As for gunmen shooting stuff - has there been any actual cases in which armoured cars have proved necessary or useful for dealing with this menace?

Pack the whole town inside the armored car, everybody is safe.

I wondered if that's what school district is planning to do during active shooter event.

[Malthus]

As for gunmen shooting stuff - has there been any actual cases in which armoured cars have proved necessary or useful for dealing with this menace?

Pack the whole town inside the armored car, everybody is safe.

I wondered if that's what school district is planning to do during active shooter event.

"OMG! An armed lunatic has taken a whole school full of kids hostage and is threatening to kill then one by one until his insane demands are met!"

"Good thing our cops are well protected inside an armoured car."

"Whew. That could have been a serious situation. "

[Razgovory]

Except for when they do, like in riot control situation or when gunmen have taken hostages and are shooting at on the street.  Banks use armored cars, don't they?  Banks don't strike me as buying frivolous things.

Armored car companies (not banks) use armored cars to transport high value, easily stolen, easily liquidated items that are common targets for thieves.

Police forces do not need armored vehicles for riot control.  If a riot gets that bad, they call the National Guard.  While an armored vehicle might be useful on the off chance some gunman is going to start randomly shooting people on the street, a heavily-armored gun truck designed to resist an anti-tank mine or assault by an insurgent squad is wholly unnecessary.  An armored Suburban or cargo van would be both sufficient and more cost effective.

Tell that to the guys who were killed when they tried to storm Branch Davidians.

[Malthus]

Except for when they do, like in riot control situation or when gunmen have taken hostages and are shooting at on the street.  Banks use armored cars, don't they?  Banks don't strike me as buying frivolous things.

Armored car companies (not banks) use armored cars to transport high value, easily stolen, easily liquidated items that are common targets for thieves.

Police forces do not need armored vehicles for riot control.  If a riot gets that bad, they call the National Guard.  While an armored vehicle might be useful on the off chance some gunman is going to start randomly shooting people on the street, a heavily-armored gun truck designed to resist an anti-tank mine or assault by an insurgent squad is wholly unnecessary.  An armored Suburban or cargo van would be both sufficient and more cost effective.

Tell that to the guys who were killed when they tried to storm Branch Davidians.

Huh? The guys who assaulted the Branch Dravidians were the Feds - and they had a pletora of weapons, includng armoured vehicles - and it lead to an infamous bloodbath.

Seems hardly what one wants from one's local police force.

Because the Branch Davidians were heavily armed, the FBI's arms included .50 caliber (12.7 mm) rifles and armored CEVs. The assault took place on April 19, 1993. CEVs used booms to puncture holes in the walls of buildings of the compound so they could pump in CS gas ("tear gas") and try to flush out the Branch Davidians without harming them. The stated plan called for increasing amounts of gas to be pumped in over two days to increase pressure. Officially, no armed assault was to be made, and loudspeakers were used to tell the Branch Davidians that there would be no armed assault and to ask them not to fire on the vehicles. When several Branch Davidians opened fire, the FBI's response was to increase the amount of gas being used.[22]

FBI also delivered 40-millimetre (1.6 in) CS grenade fire from M79 grenade launchers; very early in the morning, the FBI fired two military M651 rounds at the Branch Davidian construction site. Around mid-morning, the FBI began to run low on 40mm Ferret CS rounds, and asked Texas Ranger Captain David Byrnes for tear gas rounds; the tear gas rounds procured from Company "F" in Waco turned out to be unusable pyrotechnic rounds and were returned to the Company "F" office after the fire.[61] 40mm munitions recovered by the Texas Rangers at Waco included dozens of plastic Ferret Model SGA-400 Liquid CS rounds, two metal M651E1 military pyrotechnic tear gas rounds, two metal NICO Pyrotechnik Sound & Flash grenades, and parachute illumination flares.[61][62] After more than six hours, no Branch Davidians had left the building, sheltering instead in a cinder block room within the building or using gas masks.[63] The FBI claimed that CEVs were used to punch large holes in the building to provide exits for those inside.

At around noon, three fires broke out almost simultaneously in different parts of the building and spread quickly. The government maintains the fires were deliberately started by Branch Davidians.[22][64] Some of the Branch Davidian survivors maintain that the fires were accidentally or deliberately started by the assault.[65][66] Only nine people left the building during the fire.[22][64] The remaining Branch Davidians, including the children, were either buried alive by rubble, suffocated by the effects of the fire, or shot. Many who suffocated from the fire were killed by smoke or carbon monoxide inhalation and other causes as fire engulfed the building.[64] According to the FBI, Steve Schneider—Koresh's top aide, who "probably realized he was dealing with a fraud"—shot and killed Koresh and then committed suicide with the same gun.[67] Footage of the blaze was broadcast live by television crews.

[Razgovory]

Except for when they do, like in riot control situation or when gunmen have taken hostages and are shooting at on the street.  Banks use armored cars, don't they?  Banks don't strike me as buying frivolous things.

Huh? Banks hire companies who have armoured cars to carry around large amounts of easily-stolen cash. Police should not be carrying around large amounts of cash, unless they are on the take.

I can't think of a single instance of when an actual armored car would be useful for crowd control, other than to create a very negative photo-op. As for gunmen shooting stuff - has there been any actual cases in which armoured cars have proved necessary or useful for dealing with this menace?

Why can't banks just hire companies that don't have armored cars?  Wouldn't they be just as safe moving them by pizza delivery car?

What if some of the rioters shoot at the car?  An armored car would be handy to hide behind.  It also might more resistant to moltov cocktails.

[sbr]

As for gunmen shooting stuff - has there been any actual cases in which armoured cars have proved necessary or useful for dealing with this menace?

Pack the whole town inside the armored car, everybody is safe.

I wondered if that's what school district is planning to do during active shooter event.

"OMG! An armed lunatic has taken a whole school full of kids hostage and is threatening to kill then one by one until his insane demands are met!"

"Good thing our cops are well protected inside an armoured car."

"Whew. That could have been a serious situation. "

And bonus points for keeping the cops from having to walk backwards.

[Berkut]

[Darth Wagtaros]

If the SWAT team in Die Hard had had one of these instead of that stupid little RV things might have turned out differently for Hans and friends.