Scottish Independence

[Crazy_Ivan80]

What do people make of an independent Scotland's chances of joining the eu?
I can't help but see a lot of problems- upset at Scotland jumping the queue, Scotland not having it's own central bank, worry from other eu countries about secessionists, etc...

I suspect that Scotland will be admitted to the EU sooner or later.  The EU as a whole doesn't want to be losing bits of itself.

I do think that the EU holds most of the cards though in accession negotiations however, and won't be easy or immediate for Scotland.

depends on what happens, do take into account that Scotland currently is part of the EU. The EU might want to think twice about spurning people who'd like to be /remain part of the club given the rise of anti-EU feelings everywhere.

[Zanza]

What do people make of an independent Scotland's chances of joining the eu?
I can't help but see a lot of problems- upset at Scotland jumping the queue, Scotland not having it's own central bank, worry from other eu countries about secessionists, etc...

I suspect that Scotland will be admitted to the EU sooner or later.  The EU as a whole doesn't want to be losing bits of itself.

I do think that the EU holds most of the cards though in accession negotiations however, and won't be easy or immediate for Scotland.

Why not? The entire EU acquis communautaire already applies in Scotland and Scots are EU citizens. You would just need some very minor adjustments to add Scotland as an EU member. I am sure that having a 29th EU country with Scotland is much easier than to dissolve a 300 year union between Scotland and England.

[Razgovory]

A low-tax, low-regulation, low-public-spending England

ok let Scotland go!

Ah, so another Ireland then.

[derspiess]

Why would a Unionist Scot be holding an English flag and not a Union flag?  Color me baffled.

The English flag is racist?  Damn how am I supposed to celebrate English Heritage day now?  Oh wait there is no such thing...whew.

Basically English Patriotism was way-layed by racists and they adopted it's symbols such as the flag. That's why he feels uneasy when he sees his national symbols. There has been a concious effort to re-claim these symbols but for people born before a certain date the flag wil always be associated with soccer hooligans and english neo-nazis.

Sounds like the hooligans and nazis were maybe occupying a vaccum in the first place.  If a society in general eschews patriotism, stuff like that happens.

[Viking]

What do people make of an independent Scotland's chances of joining the eu?
I can't help but see a lot of problems- upset at Scotland jumping the queue, Scotland not having it's own central bank, worry from other eu countries about secessionists, etc...

I suspect that Scotland will be admitted to the EU sooner or later.  The EU as a whole doesn't want to be losing bits of itself.

I do think that the EU holds most of the cards though in accession negotiations however, and won't be easy or immediate for Scotland.

Why not? The entire EU acquis communautaire already applies in Scotland and Scots are EU citizens. You would just need some very minor adjustments to add Scotland as an EU member. I am sure that having a 29th EU country with Scotland is much easier than to dissolve a 300 year union between Scotland and England.

It applies to the scots because the are British citizens. If they cease being British citizens the cease being EU citizens. Scotland has to apply to join. Queue the Spanish and French objections.

[The Minsky Moment]

Scotland will simply be dominated by the financial, buisness and political interests of London without any regards to Scottish opinion if this goes through. Scotland will be an English colony in all but name. Could this be the most self defeating seccession of all time?

One of the curious aspects of the Yes position is the apparent assumption that if Scotland is de jure independent, somehow it won't matter who is running things just next door across the invisible line we call a political boundary. 

[garbon]

Scotland will simply be dominated by the financial, buisness and political interests of London without any regards to Scottish opinion if this goes through. Scotland will be an English colony in all but name. Could this be the most self defeating seccession of all time?

One of the curious aspects of the Yes position is the apparent assumption that if Scotland is de jure independent, somehow it won't matter who is running things just next door across the invisible line we call a political boundary. 

Yeah that's what strikes me as this move as being a bit immature. Will it all get better if they have nominal independence?

[Martinus]

What do people make of an independent Scotland's chances of joining the eu?
I can't help but see a lot of problems- upset at Scotland jumping the queue, Scotland not having it's own central bank, worry from other eu countries about secessionists, etc...

I suspect that Scotland will be admitted to the EU sooner or later.  The EU as a whole doesn't want to be losing bits of itself.

I do think that the EU holds most of the cards though in accession negotiations however, and won't be easy or immediate for Scotland.

Why not? The entire EU acquis communautaire already applies in Scotland and Scots are EU citizens. You would just need some very minor adjustments to add Scotland as an EU member. I am sure that having a 29th EU country with Scotland is much easier than to dissolve a 300 year union between Scotland and England.

It applies to the scots because the are British citizens. If they cease being British citizens the cease being EU citizens. Scotland has to apply to join. Queue the Spanish and French objections.

I think Zanza's point was different - that negotiations should not be hard as Scotland's legal system is already fully integrated with that of the EU so there should be no big issues to resolve before they can (re)join.

I am not sure how true that is though - I know some of the old countries have pretty slipped from EU standards, and of course it is not clear what the Scotland's budgetary discipline will look like.

And on top of that, assuming the UK stays, I don't see why the UK would, for example, want to give up votes in the EU Council to accomodate Scotlands accession - and I am not sure how willing other countries will be to effectively dilute their votes by allowing Scotland to have extra votes etc. So in short I don't think Zanza's optimism is well founded.

[The Minsky Moment]

If common sense prevails, Scotland's reintegration into the EU should be quick and pro forma as Scotland clearly wants in and it is in the EU's interest to keep them in.

But the "if" cannot be assumed, and that tricky unanimity requirement can always cause problems.

[Viking]

If common sense prevails, Scotland's reintegration into the EU should be quick and pro forma as Scotland clearly wants in and it is in the EU's interest to keep them in.

But the "if" cannot be assumed, and that tricky unanimity requirement can always cause problems.

"common sense"...  funny...

[Martinus]

Scotland, I don't know.  The monarchy decided of the union, the people followed. Don't know enough about Scottish and British history beyond that for that time period.

Scotland did vote, The scottish parliament and the english parliament negotiated the union agreement. There was a dynastic union, but the united kingdom is a union of two parliaments.

Well by that logic the UK should never be allowed to leave the EU or repatriate any powers from it.

[Viking]

Scotland, I don't know.  The monarchy decided of the union, the people followed. Don't know enough about Scottish and British history beyond that for that time period.

Scotland did vote, The scottish parliament and the english parliament negotiated the union agreement. There was a dynastic union, but the united kingdom is a union of two parliaments.

Well by that logic the UK should never be allowed to leave the EU or repatriate any powers from it.

eh? How does your conclusion follow?

[Martinus]

Scotland, I don't know.  The monarchy decided of the union, the people followed. Don't know enough about Scottish and British history beyond that for that time period.

Scotland did vote, The scottish parliament and the english parliament negotiated the union agreement. There was a dynastic union, but the united kingdom is a union of two parliaments.

Well by that logic the UK should never be allowed to leave the EU or repatriate any powers from it.

eh? How does your conclusion follow?

Isn't that your argument that once a country decided to join a union it can't leave? The fact that the Scottish people voted on something 300 years ago is hardly a reason why they can't vote differently 300 years later

[Martinus]

If Scotland remains part of UK, a financial drain, as UK corporations based in Scotland move back to England is to be expected. 

Why would that happen? I would think that UK corporations based in Scotland (such as certain banks and pension funds) know better than to do something purely out of spite. I was under an impression that the UK is not Russia, so their corporations do not necessary follow the government's bidding.

[Viking]

Scotland, I don't know.  The monarchy decided of the union, the people followed. Don't know enough about Scottish and British history beyond that for that time period.

Scotland did vote, The scottish parliament and the english parliament negotiated the union agreement. There was a dynastic union, but the united kingdom is a union of two parliaments.

Well by that logic the UK should never be allowed to leave the EU or repatriate any powers from it.

eh? How does your conclusion follow?

Isn't that your argument that once a country decided to join a union it can't leave? The fact that the Scottish people voted on something 300 years ago is hardly a reason why they can't vote differently 300 years later

I made no argument. I just told viper how scotland joined the union. It wasn't just dynastic. It was a treaty unifying the two parliaments into one.