Scottish Independence

[Richard Hakluyt]

This kind of "pride of the periphery", whether coming from a Serbian or a Quebecois, has always been baffling to me.

Well, it makes more sense in Europe now, given that the EU allows small states to flourish.

As long as the USA is kind enough to protect us.

[Tamas]

touche

[Warspite]

The biggest threat to European states has traditionally been being snuffed out by other European states, so NATO and the EU help rather well with that. Russia, granted, is showing the limits of what Europe can do, but it's worth remembering that the EU's most powerful state, and disagreements between the other two most powerful, are the main reasons behind the tepid response to the Ukrainian crisis.

A more effective rebuttal may have been, 'as long as Germany keeps coughing up cash'. 

[Martinus]

Didn't know that Homer Simpson was fascist. 

[HVC]

It was willie. Mock the frenchies all you like, but get your sources right!

[Eddie Teach]

So much for a renewal of the Auld Alliance.

[mongers]

10 days to save the Union.   


How do you fight this, can you even? :

[Viking]

This is how.

[The Minsky Moment]

Lots of articles today calling for a more federal system which is a very good idea and something that should've been done a long time ago. Trouble is none of them explain how you get a federal system to work when one of the constituent parts has 85% of the population.

Prussia used to have about that much in the old German federal system.


And look how well that worked out.

[The Minsky Moment]

My own guess is that lots of it'll be tough but a combination of market pressure (on currency and debt) and shared national interest plus American pressure (Scotland staying in NATO minus Trident) would mean a lot will be settled quite quickly. And there are a few areas where we're already separate. Scotland's got its own education and legal system for example.

That may be so but only days before the vote there doesn't seem ot be any clear picture on what the settlement on currency would be.  If Scotland wants to use sterling, then the reality will be that England will be in driver's seat, both in any negotiation for Scotland's admission to the currency bloc and for any subsequent administration.  Rational self-interest if nothing else would push England to use that leverage.   Why go independent to settle for such a result?  It does seem a bit like Yi says - a grasp at "bird and stamp" symbolism.

[The Minsky Moment]

10 days to save the Union.   


How do you fight this, can you even? :

By pointing out that it guarantees Tory rule to the south for the forseeable future, and the likely exit from the EU of independent Scotland's most important economic partner.
To think that won't impact Scotland is bonkers. 
Are these the best arguments "Yes" has?  Seems incredibly poorly thought through.

[Malthus]

My own guess is that lots of it'll be tough but a combination of market pressure (on currency and debt) and shared national interest plus American pressure (Scotland staying in NATO minus Trident) would mean a lot will be settled quite quickly. And there are a few areas where we're already separate. Scotland's got its own education and legal system for example.

That may be so but only days before the vote there doesn't seem ot be any clear picture on what the settlement on currency would be.  If Scotland wants to use sterling, then the reality will be that England will be in driver's seat, both in any negotiation for Scotland's admission to the currency bloc and for any subsequent administration.  Rational self-interest if nothing else would push England to use that leverage.   Why go independent to settle for such a result?  It does seem a bit like Yi says - a grasp at "bird and stamp" symbolism.

Really, it's an appeal to Robbie Burns:

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory;
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,
Sae fam'd in martial story.
Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue,
Thro' many warlike ages,
Is wrought now by a coward few,
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English stell we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay,
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour,
I'll mak this declaration;
We're bought and sold for English gold-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation! 

[The Minsky Moment]

Really, it's an appeal to Robbie Burns:

So no "English gold," but let's keep English silver (sterling)   

[viper37]

It is a world of difference when Baltic States are worried about getting back under the heels of the Russian Czar, and Scotland or Quebec throwing a first world problem QQ fest being ready to fuck up themselves over minor issues.

and how is it different?  What will Russia do that another empire would not do?

[Maximus]

Viper, the various regions of the US have very distinct cultural identities, despite being part of a larger country.  Try comparing Oregon, to Kansas, to Alabama, to Massechussets - four very, very different states and identities.

Hell, compare Saskatchewan, lower mainland BC and Nova Scotia. There's no more similarity there than between any of them and Quebec