Scottish Independence

[Warspite]

Once up on a time, nationalist movements demanded sacrifice. It is interesting that Salmondonian nationalism promises a unique blend of the comfort of the status quo and the sunlit uplands of independence.

Having overpromised, the SNP and the Yes crowd are going to be in for a rude shock when they find that they have precisely the leverage their share of the UK's population suggests: less than 1:9. How Salmond thinks he is going to dictate terms to the rUK, NATO and the EU, as he does, is going to spectacularly unravel.

Because he has something that they want/need.

Which would be?

[Martinus]

How many Gaelic mediums does a country need?

That would sound much better when spoken.

[Martinus]

That said, all resent London late meddling in the affair, and think it only made things worse, creating a divide in Scottish society that will take a long time to heal.

London's actions in this last couple days created a divided Scotland that will take a long time to heal?  What the hell did they do?

London (Clegg, Sheffield; Milliband, Doncaster, Cameron, Cotswolds) had the temerity to campaign for the Union. IN fact, the divide in Scottish society is created by vociferous and unplesant campaigning by the Scots. They needed no help from outsiders.

If I were that bloody English wanker, Darling, I wouldn't dare to show my face in Scotland.

[Martinus]

According to the latest Scottish poll of Poles the race is a dead heat.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-poll-of-poles-a-dead-heat-1-3542705

I am a bit surprised they let foreign residents to vote on this.

[Grey Fox]

Once up on a time, nationalist movements demanded sacrifice. It is interesting that Salmondonian nationalism promises a unique blend of the comfort of the status quo and the sunlit uplands of independence.

Having overpromised, the SNP and the Yes crowd are going to be in for a rude shock when they find that they have precisely the leverage their share of the UK's population suggests: less than 1:9. How Salmond thinks he is going to dictate terms to the rUK, NATO and the EU, as he does, is going to spectacularly unravel.

Because he has something that they want/need.

Which would be?

Space to put nuclear weapons/subs & Oil.

[Tamas]

Once up on a time, nationalist movements demanded sacrifice. It is interesting that Salmondonian nationalism promises a unique blend of the comfort of the status quo and the sunlit uplands of independence.

Having overpromised, the SNP and the Yes crowd are going to be in for a rude shock when they find that they have precisely the leverage their share of the UK's population suggests: less than 1:9. How Salmond thinks he is going to dictate terms to the rUK, NATO and the EU, as he does, is going to spectacularly unravel.

Because he has something that they want/need.

Scotch?

[Martim Silva]

London's actions in this last couple days created a divided Scotland that will take a long time to heal?  What the hell did they do?

I can only pass on what the expats said, but they mentioned that the top London politicians seemed happy to let Darling handle the issue until there was a poll that put the 'Yes' in the lead; THEN they all seemed to 'awake' and believe the issue was *very important* and needed their personal interventions, not to mention making many promises and concessions to the Scots.

To them, the promisses not only seem hollow, but above all, they give a vibe that "oh, NOW that there is a slight chance that you may lose, you start caring about it", implicating that they always saw Scotland as a backwater.

[Admiral Yi]

I can only pass on what the expats said, but they mentioned that the top London politicians seemed happy to let Darling handle the issue until there was a poll that put the 'Yes' in the lead; THEN they all seemed to 'awake' and believe the issue was *very important* and needed their personal interventions, not to mention making many promises and concessions to the Scots.

To them, the promisses not only seem hollow, but above all, they give a vibe that "oh, NOW that there is a slight chance that you may lose, you start caring about it", implicating that they always saw Scotland as a backwater.

I don't see how you get from this to "creating a divided Scotland."

[grumbler]

Space to put nuclear weapons/subs & Oil.

I don't think either of those are actually on the table.  The UK isn't going to want to base boomers in a foreign country, and the oil won't be negotiated, it will be split according to the existing standards on establishing EEZs.  Salmond can refuse to accept international standards on the EEZ split, in which case he throws out Scotland's chance to join the EU, or he can accede to those standards, in which case there isn't much negotiations at all (and what there is he will lose out on because the status quo is perfectly acceptable to his negotiating partners).

I don't expect Salmond to survive long enough to take a meaningful part in the negotiations, though.

[Barrister]

Space to put nuclear weapons/subs & Oil.

I don't think either of those are actually on the table.  The UK isn't going to want to base boomers in a foreign country, and the oil won't be negotiated, it will be split according to the existing standards on establishing EEZs.  Salmond can refuse to accept international standards on the EEZ split, in which case he throws out Scotland's chance to join the EU, or he can accede to those standards, in which case there isn't much negotiations at all (and what there is he will lose out on because the status quo is perfectly acceptable to his negotiating partners).

I don't expect Salmond to survive long enough to take a meaningful part in the negotiations, though.

Do you mean Cameron, rather than Salmond?

I don't see what would drive Salmond out of power after a yes vote.

[grumbler]

I can only pass on what the expats said, but they mentioned that the top London politicians seemed happy to let Darling handle the issue until there was a poll that put the 'Yes' in the lead; THEN they all seemed to 'awake' and believe the issue was *very important* and needed their personal interventions, not to mention making many promises and concessions to the Scots.

To them, the promisses not only seem hollow, but above all, they give a vibe that "oh, NOW that there is a slight chance that you may lose, you start caring about it", implicating that they always saw Scotland as a backwater.

I don't see how you get from this to "creating a divided Scotland."

The left has the myth that Scotland would have voted for independence by acclamation if the bastards in London hadn't created some no votes through their intimidation and fearmongering.  It is a myth, but so is the myth that the fall of the USSR was a bad thing, the these people believe that one, too.

At least, that's what the Shadow Scottish Ambassador told me at lunch yesterday.

[Grey Fox]

Space to put nuclear weapons/subs & Oil.

The UK isn't going to want to base boomers in a foreign country,

I don't think they will have much of a choice in that.

[Gups]

The relocation of Trident will be very difficult and expensive. But it's not really a negotaiting counter for Salmond since he has made an absolute commitment that the subs would have to leave by 2020.

[Barrister]

The relocation of Trident will be very difficult and expensive. But it's not really a negotaiting counter for Salmond since he has made an absolute commitment that the subs would have to leave by 2020.

I believe that Salmond has made a lot of commitments he's going to wind up backtracking from.

[celedhring]

We should run a pool on this. I say 58% No, 40% Yes, 2% Blank/Invalid