Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Josquius]

The US profited enormously from the system as it was.
I understand trumps reasoning.... But it was fundamentally surface level. Focusing solely on military spending and ignoring how a slight loss in one place can lead to vast gains in another.

Valmy, the US approval rating in most of Europe was underwater well before Trump was elected.  Posters like Zoupa and Josq have held us in contempt much longer than Trump

Who is "us" here?
The US as a whole?
As... It may seem that way with your typical black and white view on things, but no.
America irritated me for how it fell short of what it should have been. But I was never in any doubt it was overall on the side of good.

[Threviel]

Well, the leftists have been screaming about the fascist US since, ar the very least, Bush II.

[Zoupa]

So I guess we were right?

[Richard Hakluyt]

They're even recalling what's already in transit.

Next time an Iskander slams into a maternity ward in Dnipro, that'll be on Trump. Not that he gives a shit.

Zelensky disagreed with him, the ultimate crime for that thinskinned toddler. It's only right that Ukrainian people should die in repayment for the lese majeste... at least in what passes for Trumps mind.

[Threviel]

So I guess we were right?

No, crying wolf is seldom useful and often harmful.

[Josquius]

Well, the leftists have been screaming about the fascist US since, ar the very least, Bush II.

No "The leftists" haven't. Some on the left have. But then the US could be all sunshine and rainbows never does a bad thing ever and there'd be some moaning.
Tankies are a minority of a minority and not worth the amount of oxygen they get.

Though, albeit for mostly the wrong reasons, it does seem they were right to put so much energy into Iraq.
I'd probably take it back further to Reagen and co, but Bush II is a key person who set the path to the current shit.

[Razgovory]

This one is from 2007.

So some times, they really don't like us.

[Josquius]

This one is from 2007.

So some times, they really don't like us.

This is your binary thinking at work again.
There's a league of difference between "The US really should be doing better than they are. Their approach to health care is simply barbaric. So yeah, I have an unfavourable view" and "The US is the Great Satan. It needs to be wiped off the face of the earth"

[Admiral Yi]

This is your binary thinking at work again.
There's a league of difference between "The US really should be doing better than they are. Their approach to health care is simply barbaric. So yeah, I have an unfavourable view" and "The US is the Great Satan. It needs to be wiped off the face of the earth"

You're proposing Turkish people get worked up about US health care?

[Syt]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/us-politics/20000-troops-from-some-random-country-wont-bring-peace-ukraine-jd-vance/

Twenty thousand troops from 'some random country' won't bring peace, JD Vance dismisses Starmer's peace plan

The US Vice President has dismissed the idea of sending 20,000 British and French troops to Ukraine as a peacekeeping force, saying that a military presence from 'some random country' won't be enough.

JD Vance told Fox News that the only way to bring lasting peace is to give Washington an economic interest in the future of Ukraine.

He said: "If you want real security guarantees, if you want to actually ensure that Vladimir Putin does not invade Ukraine again, the very best security guarantee is to give Americans economic upside in the future of Ukraine," he said.

[...] [cutting out social media quotes]

One option that has been worked on by UK and French officials is a 'reassurance' force of 20-30,000 UK and French troops being deployed after a ceasefire around Ukrainian infrastructure, ports, nuclear power stations, even in some cities.

The UK Government this morning said it remains "absolutely committed" to peace in Ukraine and is "engaging with key allies" after Donald Trump paused US military aid to the country.

Ursula von der Leyen has also called for European countries to 'urgently' rearm to put Ukraine in a position of strength.

She said: "We are in an era of re-armament. Europe is ready to massively boost its defence spending. Both to respond to the short term urgency to support Ukraine, but also the long-term need for more responsibility for our own European security."

The Kremlin welcomed Trump's decision to pause aid, calling it the "best contribution to the cause of peace".

JD Vance accused Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky of "needling" Donald Trump and having a "certain sense of entitlement" as the US President paused aid to Ukraine.

The development comes as Mr Trump seeks to pressure Mr Zelensky into committing to peace talks with Russia, following their tense confrontation in the Oval Office last week.

Sitting down with Fox News' Sean Hannity, Mr Vance said the encounter, which happened in front of the media, "really set Zelensky off".

"He showed a clear unwillingness to engage in the peace process that President Trump said is the policy," he said.

"That's the real breakdown. I think Zelensky wasn't yet there. And frankly, still isn't there. But I think he'll get there eventually, he has to."

Mr Vance confirmed Ukrainian officials made at least one attempt to restart negotiations after leaving the White House, but efforts were shut down by Mr Trump.

But he added the "door is open" so long as "Zelensky is willing to seriously talk peace".

He also used the interview as an opportunity to criticise Europe's approach to free speech, saying governments wanted to "silence and shut down" free speech in response to criticism over immigration.

The interview came as Mr Trump ordered a pause on aid to Ukraine.

A White House official said the US was "pausing and reviewing" aid to Ukraine to "ensure that it is contributing to a solution", the Associated Press reported.

Mr Trump is focused on reaching a peace deal and wants Mr Zelensky "committed" to that goal, the official said.

Mr Trump, who has led the push for a peace deal with Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin, said the European demand for US guarantees was showing weakness to the Kremlin.

His comments came as Sir Keir Starmer restated his call for "strong US backing" for any European-led peacekeeping force in Ukraine.

The Prime Minister gathered leaders from Europe and Canada, including Mr Zelensky, for talks in London on Sunday.

The US president had criticised Mr Zelensky for suggesting a deal to end the war with Russia "is still very, very far away".

"This is the worst statement that could have been made by Zelensky, and America will not put up with it for much longer," Mr Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform on Monday.

"It is what I was saying, this guy doesn't want there to be peace as long as he has America's backing and, Europe, in the meeting they had with Zelensky, stated flatly that they cannot do the job without the US - probably not a great statement to have been made in terms of a show of strength against Russia.

"What are they thinking?"

He later said European countries had "acted very well" and were "good people".

"We're going to make deals with everybody to get this war (finished), including Europe and European nations. And they've acted very well. You know, they're good people ... they want to work it out," Mr Trump said at the White House.

Speaking in the Commons, Sir Keir again promised British troops and jets would be available to a peacekeeping force if a deal is done to end the war, along with a "coalition of the willing" from other nations.

"It is right that Europe do the heavy lifting to support peace on our continent," he said.

"But to succeed, this effort must also have strong US backing."

The Prime Minister said the proposed minerals deal between the US and Ukraine is "not enough" of a security guarantee on its own.

Plans for Mr Trump and Mr Zelensky to sign the minerals deal were put on hold after the Ukrainian leader left the White House early following their Oval Office bust-up.

But Mr Zelensky has since suggested he is ready to sign it.

Sir Keir said Mr Trump's commitment to peace was "sincere" and that a security guarantee should be led by Europe but needs US backing.

Sir Keir told MPs Britain needs to "lead from the front" and that the European "coalition of the willing" has been formed to avoid moving "at the speed of the most reluctant and that will be too slow".

Downing Street said various options are on the table but insisted no plan has been agreed after France's President, Emmanuel Macron, said his country and Britain are backing the prospect of a limited ceasefire.

The Prime Minister's official spokesman said: "There are clearly a number of options on the table."

Defence Secretary John Healey is expected to visit the US later this week for talks with his counterpart Pete Hegseth.

On Monday evening, Foreign Secretary David Lammy reported having a "good" phone conversation with US secretary of state Marco Rubio.

"The UK-US alliance is critical for global security," he posted on X.

"We are working together to deliver enduring peace in Ukraine and to ensure the ceasefire in Gaza is sustained."

Germany and France meanwhile have reportedly started discussions of how 200 billion euros (£165 billion) of frozen Russian assets could be used as a way to hold Moscow to a potential ceasefire deal.

On Sunday, Chancellor Rachel Reeves signed off on a £2.26 billion loan scheme to help Ukraine buy weapons and fund its reconstruction after the war, which will be repaid with the profits of frozen Russian assets.

[Josquius]

This is your binary thinking at work again.
There's a league of difference between "The US really should be doing better than they are. Their approach to health care is simply barbaric. So yeah, I have an unfavourable view" and "The US is the Great Satan. It needs to be wiped off the face of the earth"

You're proposing Turkish people get worked up about US health care?

Who mentioned Turkey?

Crap heathcare was an example. It factors into why I might have been tempted to say unfavourable.

The idea that any criticism of the US is equally terrible and marks you as an enemy.. It's just insane.

[crazy canuck]

Canadians certainly get worked up about American healthcare. We see the vast and inequity created by the American healthcare system and we tried to avoid it. 

[viper37]

This is your binary thinking at work again.
There's a league of difference between "The US really should be doing better than they are. Their approach to health care is simply barbaric. So yeah, I have an unfavourable view" and "The US is the Great Satan. It needs to be wiped off the face of the earth"

You're proposing Turkish people get worked up about US health care?

This is your binary thinking at work again.
There's a league of difference between "The US really should be doing better than they are. Their approach to health care is simply barbaric. So yeah, I have an unfavourable view" and "The US is the Great Satan. It needs to be wiped off the face of the earth"

You're proposing Turkish people get worked up about US health care?

In the case of Canada, it was more the Iraq war and the tariffs you govt so liked to slap on us because of your uncompetitive industries and your high dollar.

[Admiral Yi]

Who mentioned Turkey?

Raz.

[Valmy]

This one is from 2007.

So some times, they really don't like us.

Well if it adjusts depending on what the United States happens to be doing at the time, so they disliked us when we had GWB starting wars and bringing down the economy and then like us at other times like in 2024, I think it is inaccurate to say they dislike the United States. I think it is accurate to say they dislike some actions of the United States and like others.  So maybe don't take that shit personally?

But anyway I find the notion that we should be allied to countries based not on their actions and things they have done for us, but rather based on opinion polls rather absurd.