Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[dist]

Pretending that the European paradox/languish caucus hasn't been opposed to US adventurism is Trumpian gaslighting.

Is that the new euphemism for ridiculing, undermining, intimidating and threatening close allies? There is nothing wrong in opposing US adventurism if ones perceive it as dangerous and/or counterproductive, like the invasion of Iraq. Even more since Europe and the US share (shared?) common values. And this moment has nothing to with any kind of "US adventurism".

As Minsky said, there is no contempt. Just a lot of hurt, anger and angst about what is going to come. How could there be contempt as Europe might go down alongside the US and the current world order might just collapse for the worst?

[Razgovory]

My opinion is that we are all in for hard times in the near future, and getting mad at board members doesn't help when we have enough other real world things to be upset about.  As long as they oppose the rising authoritarianism in the US or elsewhere we need to work together rather than try to get on each other's nerves.

This takes some measure of understanding, as I think we all carry an underlying level of tension and stress that we didn't before.

This.

The idea that Europeans are feeling smugly superior is daft, we're all in this crisis together, only a matter of where Western democracy fails first, if that's in the USA, then much of Europe is in an existential crisis, if not already.

And the irony is the enemy, Russia and it's fellow travellers are in a very weak position, the Ukraine adventure is in some ways his last gasp of authoritarian machismo.

So stop calling me a Trump supporter.

[The Brain]

There are very fine countries on both sides.

[The Minsky Moment]

JD Vance
@JDVance
Steve Witkoff is a great guy doing an incredible job. The people sniping at him are mad that he is succeeding where they failed for 40 years.

Turns out a lot of diplomacy boils down to a simple skill: don't be an idiot.

Two problems, J.D.

1) There is a lot more to diplomacy than not being an idiot.  Which you would know if you knew anything about diplomacy.

2) Steve Witkoff is an idiot.

[Zoupa]

My opinion is that we are all in for hard times in the near future, and getting mad at board members doesn't help when we have enough other real world things to be upset about.  As long as they oppose the rising authoritarianism in the US or elsewhere we need to work together rather than try to get on each other's nerves.

This takes some measure of understanding, as I think we all carry an underlying level of tension and stress that we didn't before.

This.

The idea that Europeans are feeling smugly superior is daft, we're all in this crisis together, only a matter of where Western democracy fails first, if that's in the USA, then much of Europe is in an existential crisis, if not already.

And the irony is the enemy, Russia and it's fellow travellers are in a very weak position, the Ukraine adventure is in some ways his last gasp of authoritarian machismo.

Speak for yourself. I feel smugly superior, but that's my default frog setting.

And Raz, your country is threatening to annex mine. Sorry your feelings got hurt when we're calling it a shithole.  Cry me a river.

[Zoupa]

Btw the discourse from many americans is strikingly similar to russians since 2022.

First is I didn't vote for him, then it's what do you want little old me to do about it, now we're moving on to rallying around the flag. The depoliticization in western democracies is leading this reaction and it's a real issue.

[Admiral Yi]

Those people suck.

[crazy canuck]

JD Vance
@JDVance
Steve Witkoff is a great guy doing an incredible job. The people sniping at him are mad that he is succeeding where they failed for 40 years.

Turns out a lot of diplomacy boils down to a simple skill: don't be an idiot.

Two problems, J.D.

1) There is a lot more to diplomacy than not being an idiot.  Which you would know if you knew anything about diplomacy.

2) Steve Witkoff is an idiot.

What is the 40 year reference about?

[Zanza]

What is the 40 year reference about?

No idea, seems a bizarre timeframe. Forty years ago was Reagan and he is still held in high regards by the MAGA republicans, no?

[HVC]

My opinion is that we are all in for hard times in the near future, and getting mad at board members doesn't help when we have enough other real world things to be upset about.  As long as they oppose the rising authoritarianism in the US or elsewhere we need to work together rather than try to get on each other's nerves.

This takes some measure of understanding, as I think we all carry an underlying level of tension and stress that we didn't before.

This.

The idea that Europeans are feeling smugly superior is daft, we're all in this crisis together, only a matter of where Western democracy fails first, if that's in the USA, then much of Europe is in an existential crisis, if not already.

And the irony is the enemy, Russia and it's fellow travellers are in a very weak position, the Ukraine adventure is in some ways his last gasp of authoritarian machismo.

So stop calling me a Trump supporter.

You may not be a trump voter, but whether through badly representing your own views or not, you do come off as a trump supporter. Or given the most benefit of the doubt comes off as someone that is gleeful of his international actions.

[The Minsky Moment]

JD Vance
@JDVance
Steve Witkoff is a great guy doing an incredible job. The people sniping at him are mad that he is succeeding where they failed for 40 years.

Turns out a lot of diplomacy boils down to a simple skill: don't be an idiot.

Two problems, J.D.

1) There is a lot more to diplomacy than not being an idiot.  Which you would know if you knew anything about diplomacy.

2) Steve Witkoff is an idiot.

What is the 40 year reference about?

I don't know.

I think the context is Witkoff's role with the Hamas-Israel discussions and his public statement that he was "duped" by Hamas.   But even there I don't know what 40 years refers to.  1985 is two years before the First Intifada so maybe that?  I'm not sure why that was a failure of US diplomacy.  The Oslo Accords were pretty successful, at least for a time, and that was in the early 90s. 

I think it's safe to assume as an operating assumption that Vance has no idea what is talking about whenever he speaks up on any foreign policy question.

[dist]

I think it refers to his age. He is 40. At least, I wouldn't be surprised if this is what he is referring to, seeing the rest of his message.

[HVC]

Maybe he's being super old school and using the biblical 40 to mean a long time

[Razgovory]

My opinion is that we are all in for hard times in the near future, and getting mad at board members doesn't help when we have enough other real world things to be upset about.  As long as they oppose the rising authoritarianism in the US or elsewhere we need to work together rather than try to get on each other's nerves.

This takes some measure of understanding, as I think we all carry an underlying level of tension and stress that we didn't before.

This.

The idea that Europeans are feeling smugly superior is daft, we're all in this crisis together, only a matter of where Western democracy fails first, if that's in the USA, then much of Europe is in an existential crisis, if not already.

And the irony is the enemy, Russia and it's fellow travellers are in a very weak position, the Ukraine adventure is in some ways his last gasp of authoritarian machismo.

So stop calling me a Trump supporter.

You may not be a trump voter, but whether through badly representing your own views or not, you do come off as a trump supporter. Or given the most benefit of the doubt comes off as someone that is gleeful of his international actions.

I am not gleeful.  I am bitter.  I am not sure how that comes off as a Trump supporter.  What exactly should I do?  "Yes, I am scum!  Thank you for noticing, ball of light".

[HisMajestyBOB]

JD Vance
@JDVance
Steve Witkoff is a great guy doing an incredible job. The people sniping at him are mad that he is succeeding where they failed for 40 years.

Turns out a lot of diplomacy boils down to a simple skill: don't be an idiot.

Two problems, J.D.

1) There is a lot more to diplomacy than not being an idiot.  Which you would know if you knew anything about diplomacy.

2) Steve Witkoff is an idiot.

What is the 40 year reference about?

Presumably they don't intend to bring back Reagan's policy towards Russia.

Maybe he wants to start arming the Mujahideen and send arms to Iran?