Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[grumbler]

Just fyi, but Russia shot down a passenger jet full of Europeans in 2014 and absolutely nothing happened. Let's not get our hopes up.

Just fyi, Iran shot down a passenger jet full of Europeans and Canadians in 2020, and the US a passenger jet full of passengers in 1988, and that's just a couple of such incidents I can think of off the top of my head.  That sort of thing happens.

[Jacob]

It's not necessarily about information though - I really, honest to God hope senior politicians aren't off "doing their research"

Plus only the really difficult stuff should ever reach a politician - everything else should have been decided by civil servants/advisors way below them which I suspect is another reason to keep off the emails.

Yeah IMO senior leaders should primarily be getting information (actionable or background) either form experts, or for people responsible for collating expert information. That and from political stakeholders and constituents, which I suppose is where technology might come in.

[Tamas]

Fine but how is sticking to first half of 20th century technology is helping with that.

[Zoupa]

Just fyi, but Russia shot down a passenger jet full of Europeans in 2014 and absolutely nothing happened. Let's not get our hopes up.

Just fyi, Iran shot down a passenger jet full of Europeans and Canadians in 2020, and the US a passenger jet full of passengers in 1988, and that's just a couple of such incidents I can think of off the top of my head.  That sort of thing happens.

Ok?

[grumbler]

Just fyi, but Russia shot down a passenger jet full of Europeans in 2014 and absolutely nothing happened. Let's not get our hopes up.

Just fyi, Iran shot down a passenger jet full of Europeans and Canadians in 2020, and the US a passenger jet full of passengers in 1988, and that's just a couple of such incidents I can think of off the top of my head.  That sort of thing happens.

Ok?

OK.  You were the one who brought up airliner shoot-downs as somehow relevant to anything other than airliners getting shot down.

[Zoupa]

I'm not sure why you quote-replied to me then?

[grumbler]

I'm not sure why you quote-replied to me then?

Just fyi.

[Tonitrus]

Now the reports are that the missile that landed in Poland was more likely Ukrainian (fired at incoming Russian missiles).

[Zoupa]

I'm not sure why you quote-replied to me then?

Just fyi.

 

[Tamas]

Now the reports are that the missile that landed in Poland was more likely Ukrainian (fired at incoming Russian missiles).

True or not, its the narrative to de-escalate and do nothing about it, I guess.

[The Brain]

Sweden has presented its 9th aid package to Ukraine. Air defense systems (exact nature still secret), winter gear, body armor and ATVs. No Archer artillery systems, yet.

[Sheilbh]

Now the reports are that the missile that landed in Poland was more likely Ukrainian (fired at incoming Russian missiles).

True or not, its the narrative to de-escalate and do nothing about it, I guess.

Yeah I noticed Poland were very, very quick to say no-one should rush with unconfirmed reports and should wait for things to be investigated. Also in the Polish statement yesterday how very careful they were in their language describing it as a "Russian-made" missile. I think Biden also said the initial information around the trajectory indicated it was not fired from Russia.

Similarly the second person Duda called was Zelensky, who said "we exchanged available information and are clarifying all the facts".

All of those add up to it being a Soviet era Ukrainian anti-air missile - and I think from the start Poland's language and approach would have been quite different had they thought it came from Russia.

[celedhring]

If you want to shake your fists at the usual usual suspects 

[Duque de Bragança]

Now the reports are that the missile that landed in Poland was more likely Ukrainian (fired at incoming Russian missiles).

True or not, its the narrative to de-escalate and do nothing about it, I guess.

Yeah I noticed Poland were very, very quick to say no-one should rush with unconfirmed reports and should wait for things to be investigated. Also in the Polish statement yesterday how very careful they were in their language describing it as a "Russian-made" missile. I think Biden also said the initial information around the trajectory indicated it was not fired from Russia.

Similarly the second person Duda called was Zelensky, who said "we exchanged available information and are clarifying all the facts".

All of those add up to it being a Soviet era Ukrainian anti-air missile - and I think from the start Poland's language and approach would have been quite different had they thought it came from Russia.

Yeah, it's reported over here as well: Polish president Duda said it was highly likely it was an Ukrainian anti-air missile.

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/live/2022/11/16/guerre-en-ukraine-en-direct-le-missile-qui-a-atteint-la-pologne-est-un-message-de-la-russie-au-g20-estime-volodymyr-zelensky_6150044_3210.html

Adding "nothing shows it was an intentional attack on Poland".

[Syt]

If you want to shake your fists at the usual usual suspects 

There was an ad for an "impartial" roundtable about the War in Ukraine, hosted by HC Strache, floating around online. "Platform for Peace and Neutrality". All participants were far to the right of center. The official email was Strache's GMX address (which is about as professional as using a hotmail address was ).