Thor is transexual!

[dps]

Indeed.  But that would get in the way of a bunch of people who don't read comics FREAKING OUT over shit they neither understand nor, really, care about in the first place.

I mean, it's not like this would be the first time this has happened.  Eric Masterson anybody?  Also Loki was a chick for like two years.  Also Thor was a frog one time.

That's not the point. Why not have a female superhero with a strong storyline that's all her own? Not one of the uber-boobed, under-armored chicks who mostly simper and/or connive. Rather, a woman as strong, capable, and lovable as Wonder Woman? Of all of the comics out there, there is one really awesome female superhero with a great storyline.

It can't be that hard to come up with one. Instead, they've chosen to usurp a guy's. It's annoying.

Meh, Marvel and DC both already have too many superheroes, and a lot of them are kind of lame anyway.  This seems like a lame gimmick, but do you really think the people responsible would be all that likely to come up with a new superhero that wasn't just as lame?  Look at some of the very questionable editorial decisions that have been made at both Marvel and DC in recent years, or think about how long it's been since any really iconic new superhero has been introduced.

[Syt]

Not one of the uber-boobed, under-armored chicks

While I don't disagree with your other points much, I think this argument is not very valid, because the vast majority of male superheroes are also presented in hyper-masculine way with highly toned physiques in little or skintight clothing. It's very much like pro wrestling that way.

[garbon]

And Wonder Woman is pretty uber-boobed, under armored apart from bullets and bracelets.

[Ideologue]

Indeed.  But that would get in the way of a bunch of people who don't read comics FREAKING OUT over shit they neither understand nor, really, care about in the first place.

I mean, it's not like this would be the first time this has happened.  Eric Masterson anybody?  Also Loki was a chick for like two years.  Also Thor was a frog one time.

That's not the point. Why not have a female superhero with a strong storyline that's all her own? Not one of the uber-boobed, under-armored chicks who mostly simper and/or connive. Rather, a woman as strong, capable, and lovable as Wonder Woman? Of all of the comics out there, there is one really awesome female superhero with a great storyline.

Lol.

Look, I've never said that comics don't have a representation problem.  And if you want actual answers as to why that is, I can give those to you, but they're complicated (and they are depressing), and I'm not writing an essay about them right now.

That said, when you say there is literally only one great female superhero, I think you mean "Merithyn has heard of one great female superhero," and even that probably isn't even true, since there's no way you've avoided hearing of Jean Grey.

Interestingly, the major criticism of Wonder Woman is that she does not have a great storyline: unlike Batman or Superman, or even Green Lantern, you cannot point to a Wonder Woman story and say "This."  There is no Dark Knight Returns, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, or Sinestro Corps War for Diana.  I couldn't even name a prominent Wonder Woman story, other than her origin and team efforts like Kingdom Come or Morrison's JLA run.  She also lacks good villains--I mean, name one.

Now, that's not the concept's fault.  The WW concept is pretty great.

(Jean Grey does have a great storyline.  Unfortunately, it is in many respects not terribly empowering, and has been frequently ripped off to even more sexist results; but you've got to give her credit [spoiler]for the part where she commits suicide.[/spoiler])

It can't be that hard to come up with one.

And that's the nutshell of the problem right there, obviating a great big long essay: yes it is.  In fact, it's borderline impossible.

Every superhero you've ever heard and 90% of the ones even superhero fans give a shit about were created before 1970.  The only comic book characters created after that date that the average joe or josephine even knows are 1)Wolverine and 2)the Punisher.  That is an exhaustive list.  You could maybe add Deadpool and Cable if you were stretching it, but I doubt it.

Instead, they've chosen to usurp a guy's. It's annoying.

I guess, if variant versions of superheroes weren't an integral part of the genre.

[Ideologue]

Not one of the uber-boobed, under-armored chicks

While I don't disagree with your other points much, I think this argument is not very valid, because the vast majority of male superheroes are also presented in hyper-masculine way with highly toned physiques in little or skintight clothing. It's very much like pro wrestling that way.

Good thing this is Languish and not a feminist comic book forum, or you'd be swarmed.

Fwiw, I actually agree to an extent.  On one hand, women are definitely super-sexualized in comics, with wasp waists and huge tits.  On the other, men are made to be figures of power and muscular superhumanity.  Unfortunately for gender representation in superhero books, the things which visually symbolize power are also the things which make the masculine figure sexually desirable.  So you have a problem where the solution is to make it so that women are butched up--since I'm too lazy to come up with a better term--and men are still conventionally hot.

I've never especially minded artists' use of the variations on an idealized feminine form, as long as they actually varied it: I have routinely been annoyed when women who are supposed to be exclusively street-level physical fighters are drawn in the same waifish manner you could get away with if you were depicting a telekinetic or the like.  Check out how Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) is too-often drawn--a tiny, super-cute Southeast Asian girl, not dissimilar from the ones seen in her artists' favorite pornographic videos.  As opposed to an extremely muscular UFC fighter who probably has had her nose broken ten times in twenty years.  (Bonus points if she actually appears to be Southeast Asian, though!)

The larger problem is that comic book artists almost uniformly suck at portraiture--drawing the same faces, bodies, etc. over and over again.  Even great artists are often terrible at this (Frank Quitely, for a sometimes almost-grotesque example, although his "acting" is good once you get used to it).  There is a hilarious absence of diversity--and I don't mean minorities, I just mean indications that people aren't clones.  It's also pervasive in animation; see, e.g., that comparison of Elsa and Anna from Frozen that indicates they were just about Goddamned palette-swapped.

[Syt]

[jimmy olsen]

He's a girl, now!



If they wanted to attract more women and girls to superhero comic books, why not create one based around a classic heroine/goddess instead of re-inventing some guy god?

Women who come to mind:

Diana/Artemis - Goddess of the Hunt
Boudica - Legendary female warrior
Freyja - Goddess of War
Cordelia - Legendary War Queen
Grainne - Irish Pirate that bested Queen Elizabeth I
Hervor - Sheildmaiden of the Vikings

War isn't the first thing I think of when I think of Freyja.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyja

In Norse mythology, Freyja (Old Norse the "Lady") is a goddess associated with love, sexuality, beauty, fertility, gold, seiðr, war, and death. Freyja

Athena would be much more appropriate

[dps]

She also lacks good villains--I mean, name one.

Well, considering her original origin story, her villians were the Nazis.  You don't get much more villian-y than that.

Every superhero you've ever heard and 90% of the ones even superhero fans give a shit about were created before 1970.  The only comic book characters created after that date that the average joe or josephine even knows are 1)Wolverine and 2)the Punisher.  That is an exhaustive list.  You could maybe add Deadpool and Cable if you were stretching it, but I doubt it.

Yeah, I alluded to that earlier.

[Legbiter]

I think if you're a man and you care deeply about female/sexual minority representation in popular culture you should just stop, take stock of your life thus far and seriously consider making an appointment with your gynecologist. Prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[Ideologue]

I think if you're a man and you care deeply about female/sexual minority representation in popular culture you should just stop, take stock of your life thus far and seriously consider making an appointment with your gynecologist. Prevention is worth a pound of cure.

What a terribly insecure thing to say.  Did your father molest you, or was it the other boys?

[Legbiter]

What a terribly insecure thing to say.  Did your father molest you, or was it the other boys?

Neither. And the only Thor spinoff I want is this. 

[Neil]

She also lacks good villains--I mean, name one.

Cheetah can be fun, but you're right that WW doesn't have the Great Story that many other characters do.

Every superhero you've ever heard and 90% of the ones even superhero fans give a shit about were created before 1970.  The only comic book characters created after that date that the average joe or josephine even knows are 1)Wolverine and 2)the Punisher.  That is an exhaustive list.  You could maybe add Deadpool and Cable if you were stretching it, but I doubt it.

I was going to post this.  There hasn't been a new character that has really caught on for the big two since the introduction of the gritty antiheroes by Marvel in the 80s.  For DC, the most recent character they have who could headline a film is probably Hal Jordan, although the New Teen Titans seem to enjoy some success due to their animated series.  And Jordan was created in the late 1950s.

When it comes to the most recently created women characters that are kinda famous, you'd probably have to go with Kitty Pryde and Emma Frost.  And both of them are great characters, not known for simpering.

You know what series did a good job with having strong, capable women without being to 'Girl Power'-ey?  Birds of Prey.

[Neil]

I've never especially minded artists' use of the variations on an idealized feminine form, as long as they actually varied it: I have routinely been annoyed when women who are supposed to be exclusively street-level physical fighters are drawn in the same waifish manner you could get away with if you were depicting a telekinetic or the like.  Check out how Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) is too-often drawn--a tiny, super-cute Southeast Asian girl, not dissimilar from the ones seen in her artists' favorite pornographic videos.  As opposed to an extremely muscular UFC fighter who probably has had her nose broken ten times in twenty years.  (Bonus points if she actually appears to be Southeast Asian, though!)

The Batgirls might not be such a great example, since the Robins have the same issue.  They're children, so it makes sense that they be drawn smaller.

[Ideologue]

That's fair.  Cassandra Cain is just my favorite example of terrible execution in practically everything.  ("How do we create the perfect assassin?"  "First, we should make it so she's unable to answer questions at border checkpoints or even understand directions on how to get to where her target is.")

I was going to mention the LSH as a team with a lot of pretty top-notch female characters, although obviously that depends on the writer and often the issue.

I also forgot Ghost Rider.  Now it's an exhaustive list.

[jimmy olsen]

Cain has a rather fanatical online fan base I've found.