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Granny Tazed

Started by HVC, June 10, 2009, 11:05:44 AM

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Monoriu

Quote from: lustindarkness on June 10, 2009, 08:23:04 PM
Sucks that he had to taze her, but she asked for it, in both action and words.

:yes:

derspiess

"if your mom doesn't bother to take the cigarette out of her mouth before she tells the cop who pulled her over to 'kiss my ass', you might be a redneck"  :)
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

CountDeMoney

The officer followed the continuum of force appropriately.
Just because she's a senior makes her no less dangerous.  Those cranky bitches can bite.

And for all you asshats with ZOMG WHY DINT HE JUS PUT TEH CUFFS ON HER, you don't put your hands on people unless you absolutely have to, for both the officer's safety and the suspects. 
Never mind the possible injuries involved in a scuffle, the last thing you want to do is wrestle with someone at a traffic stop, have her slither out, run into traffic and get plowed by a passing semi. 
Then there's more paperwork.

Caliga

Since the elderly are completely useless, he should have been able to use her disobedience as an excuse to skip the taser phase and go right to the .45 round into the back of the head phase. :)
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2009, 06:52:29 PM
What confuses me is why she was required to sign the ticket.  Here at least you don't have to sign, are just served it.  For certain things though (generally arrestable offences) if you don't sign you don't get released from custody.

As a traffic stop is a form of arrest, your signature is your acknowledgement that you will appear in court.  If not, we can always have that paperwork filled out at the station, and YOU DONT WANT THAT DO YOU?

Berkut

Quote from: grumbler on June 10, 2009, 05:40:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 10, 2009, 05:34:11 PM
She was not dangerous, nor there was a suspicion she was guilty of any crime, other than disobeying what the policeman told her. I suppose her identity could have been easily identified from any ID, or barring that, her car's license plates. We hire humans (who, supposedly have brains), rather than dogs or mindless robots as cops, so they should be able to assess that.

In this case, she should have been charged with whatever the felony/misdemeanor that is, but there was no need to stop her physically - even if she went home freely, they would have easily found her.
The cop did not know that she was not dangerous (she certainly was behaving as though she may have been drunk) and she had just been caught committing a crime (contrary to your assertion that there was no "suspicion she was guilty of any crime"), so the factors you used to reach a judgement are both clearly bogus on the face of them.  Good thinkin' there, Tex.


If I had not actually met him in person, I would really doubt that Marty is really a lawyer.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Berkut

Quote from: grumbler on June 10, 2009, 05:51:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 10, 2009, 05:45:17 PM
Not sure how this is relevant. I find the police response fucked up. Only because it was sanctioned by your laws, it does not make it right.  :huh:
In what way did the police response fuck up, to the extent that her disobediance of police instrctions is "irrelevant?"

Dunno about Poland, but in the US, if a person refuses to follow the law, they can be arrested.  If they resist arrest, then the minimum force necessary to subdue them is authorized.  Tazing was clearly a better alternative to a physical altercation, which would have been the only other way to get her cuffed (both because the physical alteration was far likelier to injure the perp, and because the perp would also then have a chance to injure the officer and, at the least, get assault added to the resisting arrest charges).

By US standards, the cop did things right, from what I can see. Poland may have different standards, but this cop wasn't in Poland.

It also sounds like there may have been some concern for her own safety - this is all happening on the side of the road, with cars driving by at (presumably) 45mph. Her running around, and him having to chasse and subdue her is likely to put her life in danger.

Tazing is a MUCH safer method of subduing the unruly elderly than actually physically grabbing them. I think it is becoming common in old folks homes as well.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Neil

Quote from: Berkut on June 11, 2009, 08:53:52 AM
If I had not actually met him in person, I would really doubt that Marty is really a lawyer.
Mind you, he's a corporate lawyer.  Situations involving public order are entirely beyond his understanding of law or public policy.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

grumbler

Quote from: Berkut on June 11, 2009, 08:56:25 AM
Tazing is a MUCH safer method of subduing the unruly elderly than actually physically grabbing them. I think it is becoming common in old folks homes as well.
marti disagrees, noting that "Tazing should be used against dangerous perps who cannot be subdued by normal means" and that therefor the cop should have physically assaulted her to subdue her.

The fact that Marti's opinion is based on ignorant hysteria and yours on facts makes them, at best, equally valid by languish rules.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Berkut

Quote from: grumbler on June 11, 2009, 09:06:10 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 11, 2009, 08:56:25 AM
Tazing is a MUCH safer method of subduing the unruly elderly than actually physically grabbing them. I think it is becoming common in old folks homes as well.
marti disagrees, noting that "Tazing should be used against dangerous perps who cannot be subdued by normal means" and that therefor the cop should have physically assaulted her to subdue her.

The fact that Marti's opinion is based on ignorant hysteria and yours on facts makes them, at best, equally valid by languish rules.

Nah, as we have seen from Strix's raving about his new found love for unions, opinions based on facts, logic, and actual knowledge are worthy of only derision. Marty, much like Strix, has me beat cold.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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PDH

Well, in times like this I always return to that quote of Abraham Lincoln: "A granny tazed is better than a tranny glazed."
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

derspiess

Quote from: Berkut on June 11, 2009, 08:56:25 AM
It also sounds like there may have been some concern for her own safety - this is all happening on the side of the road, with cars driving by at (presumably) 45mph. Her running around, and him having to chasse and subdue her is likely to put her life in danger.

Stop using fancy French words  <_<
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

PDH

Quote from: derspiess on June 11, 2009, 09:18:05 AM
Stop using fancy French words  <_<
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the cuisine.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

DontSayBanana

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 11, 2009, 05:30:29 AM
And for all you asshats with ZOMG WHY DINT HE JUS PUT TEH CUFFS ON HER, you don't put your hands on people unless you absolutely have to, for both the officer's safety and the suspects. 
Never mind the possible injuries involved in a scuffle, the last thing you want to do is wrestle with someone at a traffic stop, have her slither out, run into traffic and get plowed by a passing semi. 
Then there's more paperwork.

THANK YOU. I've been wanting to say that since Marti got started, but I didn't feel like having Queenie calling me "pompous" for the umpteenth time. <_<
Experience bij!

Malthus

Quote from: Berkut on June 11, 2009, 08:56:25 AM

Tazing is a MUCH safer method of subduing the unruly elderly than actually physically grabbing them. I think it is becoming common in old folks homes as well.

When did the authorities start commonly tazing people in old folk's homes?  :huh:
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius