Granny Tazed

[Martinus]

She was not dangerous, nor there was a suspicion she was guilty of any crime, other than disobeying what the policeman told her. I suppose her identity could have been easily identified from any ID, or barring that, her car's license plates. We hire humans (who, supposedly have brains), rather than dogs or mindless robots as cops, so they should be able to assess that.

In this case, she should have been charged with whatever the felony/misdemeanor that is, but there was no need to stop her physically - even if she went home freely, they would have easily found her.

Psst, Marti... in the US, disobeying an officer is an arrestable offense.

Not sure how this is relevant. I find the police response fucked up. Only because it was sanctioned by your laws, it does not make it right. 

[grumbler]

What crime was she caught committing?

Reckless driving (15+ mph over the speed limit).

[Martinus]

What crime was she caught committing?

Reckless driving (15+ mph over the speed limit).

That sounds more like a misdemeanor/driving regulation violation than a crime, but it could be a translation/language issue.

[DGuller]

That's a Virginia thing.  Reckless driving is indeed a crime, and Virginia has a notoriously low threshold and notoriously high fines for it.  I don't think in any other state 15+ is reckless driving.

[DontSayBanana]

What crime was she caught committing?

The cop was issuing her a citation for driving 60 in a 45 mph zone, which is speeding as well as careless or reckless driving in some jurisdictions. Since she refused to cooperate, her disobeying the officer resulted in an arrestable misdemeanor and her attempts to get out of that were resisting arrest, which is a felony.

Basically, it didn't start as a big deal, but she dug herself into a legal hole.

[grumbler]

Not sure how this is relevant. I find the police response fucked up. Only because it was sanctioned by your laws, it does not make it right. 

In what way did the police response fuck up, to the extent that her disobediance of police instrctions is "irrelevant?"

Dunno about Poland, but in the US, if a person refuses to follow the law, they can be arrested.  If they resist arrest, then the minimum force necessary to subdue them is authorized.  Tazing was clearly a better alternative to a physical altercation, which would have been the only other way to get her cuffed (both because the physical alteration was far likelier to injure the perp, and because the perp would also then have a chance to injure the officer and, at the least, get assault added to the resisting arrest charges).

By US standards, the cop did things right, from what I can see. Poland may have different standards, but this cop wasn't in Poland.

[DontSayBanana]

That's a Virginia thing.  Reckless driving is indeed a crime, and Virginia has a notoriously low threshold and notoriously high fines for it.  I don't think in any other state 15+ is reckless driving.

I thought we had 15+ reckless driving in NJ until recently.

[grumbler]

That sounds more like a misdemeanor/driving regulation violation than a crime, but it could be a translation/language issue.

Agree, could be language differences, but the definition is irrelevant.  The officer had all the authority needed to pull her over.  He she obeyed the law that required her to acknowledge the ticket, she would have driven on without further incident.  She chose to escalate this stop into an arresting offense, not the cop.

[Jaron]

Martinus says:
could you please stop responding to my posts on Languish? I'm rather tired of your trolling, thanks
Stephen says:
I'm afraid I cannot accomodate your request. 
If you're going to post foolish things, I'm going to call you on it.
Martinus says:
then I am not going to talk to you anymore

[Martinus]

Not sure how this is relevant. I find the police response fucked up. Only because it was sanctioned by your laws, it does not make it right. 

In what way did the police response fuck up, to the extent that her disobediance of police instrctions is "irrelevant?"

Dunno about Poland, but in the US, if a person refuses to follow the law, they can be arrested.  If they resist arrest, then the minimum force necessary to subdue them is authorized.  Tazing was clearly a better alternative to a physical altercation, which would have been the only other way to get her cuffed (both because the physical alteration was far likelier to injure the perp, and because the perp would also then have a chance to injure the officer and, at the least, get assault added to the resisting arrest charges).

By US standards, the cop did things right, from what I can see. Poland may have different standards, but this cop wasn't in Poland.

And I can express my opinion that I think it's fucked up, just as I can express my opinion that running over student protesters with tanks is fucked up, even though probably in line with Chinese law.

[DGuller]

I thought we had 15+ reckless driving in NJ until recently.

I recall reading that it's 20+, and only if you've been involved in an accident.  However, I can't find anything on the Internet to confirm this.  If 15+ is an automatic reckless driving in NJ, then there isn't an innocent person driving on the Garden State Parkway.

[grumbler]

And I can express my opinion that I think it's fucked up, just as I can express my opinion that running over student protesters with tanks is fucked up, even though probably in line with Chinese law.

Well, you can, indeed, make absurd judgements based on facts which you make up yourself, but that doesn't mean you won't get called on them, even if simple logic and informed opinion are apparently not much valued in Poland.

This is the kind of line of argumentation, btw, which makes pretty much everyone doubt you really are a lawyer who hangs with the "movers and shakers" of the world. 

[Jaron]

It is rather frightening that some people, somewhere in Europe actually pay for his services.

[grumbler]

I recall reading that it's 20+, and only if you've been involved in an accident.  However, I can't find anything on the Internet to confirm this.  If 15+ is an automatic reckless driving in NJ, that there isn't an innocent person driving on the Garden State Parkway.

And pretty much everyone in Virginia! 

But whether or not the woman was accused of reckless driving, and whether or not she was guilty of a "crime" or a mere "violation of the traffic laws," the cop had the right to stop her, and certainly the grounds to suspect he should not let her get back on the road right away.  The attitude that she was displaying would certainly look to a lot of copa like drunken belligerence.

[grumbler]

It is rather frightening that some people, somewhere in Europe actually pay for his services.

Not if they are services as, say, a plumber or a chef.  Marti could be excellent at any number of things that don't require logical thought and reasoning.