UKIP poster boy is a racist immigrant, film at 11

[Sheilbh]

I think all this concentrating on idiotic issues is in a big part because true choice in mainstream politics have diead.

When you look at mainstream political parties you have choices between a mild welfare state and a slightly less mild welfare state, with no real ideological difference.

Yeah. But we had huge political battles between socialism and capitalism after the war. What was the appropriate size and scale of the state? What industries should be nationalised?

Labour went too high in the seventies and too low (following Tory plans) in the 90s. Basically the British consensus is a state around the low 40s% of GDP. I can see reforms within that but I don't think that'll change significantly any time soon. We've settled that issue. There's no pure socialists or capitalists left, we're all Blairites now.

This isn't an idiotic issue. I think the big issue of modern politics all over the world is what Tony Blair's identified: open v closed societies. Basically how do we respond to all the different forces that have been unleashed by globalisation. I think that pervades debates about Europe, immigration, banker-bashing and many social issues. It's not an idiotic issue, but it is an idiotic debate because our parties were made for the socialism v capitalism debate. It's not shaken out yet. Both sides of all those debates are present in all major parties.

[Sheilbh]

Did he give several interviews about that or was it just the one on the bbc, whilst he was at a school the next morning?

I ask because what he was quoted as saying, was a deliberate shortening of the sentence he said, missing out a couple of words that rather changed the emphasis.

I know it's open season on portraying him as an out of touch nerd, but in the interview he gave, what he said sounded reasonable and unforced.

Note the 'Adventurous Veg with Yotam Ottolenghi'

[Martinus]

You give two reasons for this though one is because your interests are the complete opposite, the other is a reaction to British domestic politics. Which is it, or is it more that anger about British politics sort of drove Poland to her national interests, not her national allies more quickly?

One seems sensible and the other a little hysterical

Err, this is hardly a domestic issue - you want to change rules in the EU in a way that will benefit you and harm Poland. 

Not to mention, anti-immigration rhetoric is already affecting Polish citizens living in the UK.

[Josquius]

You give two reasons for this though one is because your interests are the complete opposite, the other is a reaction to British domestic politics. Which is it, or is it more that anger about British politics sort of drove Poland to her national interests, not her national allies more quickly?

One seems sensible and the other a little hysterical

Err, this is hardly a domestic issue - you want to change rules in the EU in a way that will benefit you and harm Poland. 

Not to mention, anti-immigration rhetoric is already affecting Polish citizens living in the UK.

Keeping uneducated Poles working in Poland would be beneficial for Poland no?

Crap for those people themselves of course, but for Poland as a whole not losing productive years of its young people like that would be good.

[Martinus]

You give two reasons for this though one is because your interests are the complete opposite, the other is a reaction to British domestic politics. Which is it, or is it more that anger about British politics sort of drove Poland to her national interests, not her national allies more quickly?

One seems sensible and the other a little hysterical

Err, this is hardly a domestic issue - you want to change rules in the EU in a way that will benefit you and harm Poland. 

Not to mention, anti-immigration rhetoric is already affecting Polish citizens living in the UK.

Keeping uneducated Poles working in Poland would be beneficial for Poland no?

Crap for those people themselves of course, but for Poland as a whole not losing productive years of its young people like that would be good.

Not really. The temporary emigration does wonders to our economy. It significantly reduced the unemployment rates and improves our GDP, since most migrant workers keep sending money back.

[Martinus]

Btw, where does the perception that Poles working in the UK are uneducated come from? 

Edit: and assuming they are uneducated, why would it be beneficial to keep them in Poland?

You makes absolutely no sense. 

[Josquius]

Btw, where does the perception that Poles working in the UK are uneducated come from? 

Edit: and assuming they are uneducated, why would it be beneficial to keep them in Poland?

You makes absolutely no sense. 

I said nothing of the sort.
The uneducated ones are the ones UKIP and co want to keep out however.
I've read a bit about worker shortages in parts of Poland due to most of the young going off to work abroad for a few years. Polish MPs have campaigned for them to come back.

[Martinus]

Btw, where does the perception that Poles working in the UK are uneducated come from? 

Edit: and assuming they are uneducated, why would it be beneficial to keep them in Poland?

You makes absolutely no sense. 

I said nothing of the sort.
The uneducated ones are the ones UKIP and co want to keep out however.
I've read a bit about worker shortages in parts of Poland due to most of the young going off to work abroad for a few years. Polish MPs have campaigned for them to come back.

This was just the usual opposition crap, trying to show how bad the government is, as people are leaving etc.

But the fact is, this helps our economy a lot.

[Admiral Yi]

Everything else being equal, I imagine Poland would prefer those people work in Poland than somewhere else, as their earnings can be taxed and they consume locally produced goods and services.

[derspiess]

It all comes down to a three letter word: JOBS

[Richard Hakluyt]

The economy seems to generate enough jobs, there would be skill shortages if UKIP had their way, but there is a big housing problem. British planning law is highly restrictive and we are currently constructing about 100,000 houses per annum, meanwhile household formation is running at 250,000 per annum........it is a recipe for overcrowding and tension.

I want the state to get involved in this and start producing social housing in large quantities until the pressure is relieved. We are probably talking about 250,000 houses a year for a the forseeable future.

[mongers]

The economy seems to generate enough jobs, there would be skill shortages if UKIP had their way, but there is a big housing problem. British planning law is highly restrictive and we are currently constructing about 100,000 houses per annum, meanwhile household formation is running at 250,000 per annum........it is a recipe for overcrowding and tension.

I want the state to get involved in this and start producing social housing in large quantities until the pressure is relieved. We are probably talking about 250,000 houses a year for a the forseeable future.

Yes, that's what's need and clearly there's a significant backlog. 

But it'll never happen, no votes in it.

[Admiral Yi]

Since the construction of housing projects (as we call them in our country) would presumably involve changes to the planning laws, why not just change the planning laws and let private builders do it?

[Sheilbh]

Err, this is hardly a domestic issue - you want to change rules in the EU in a way that will benefit you and harm Poland. 

Anti-immigration rhetoric is purely domestic. At the moment we still don't know what the Tories actually want, or who'll form the next government so whether there'll even be a renegotiation at all. There's a big leap from domestic politics to actual British proposals to change the rules in a way that would hurt Poland.

If Poland's not cooperating with the UK on things like tax harmonisation or labour laws because our interests have diverged that's very sensible (and I have always wondered how long the British-East Europe Euro-alliance would last because on issues like trade and agriculture our interests are often opposed, being pro-expansion and one of the three countries that actually allowed for free movement of labour can't count for that much).

But if Poland isn't cooperating with the UK, despite shared interests, because the rhetoric of one party in the British government and a fringe party that 85% of British people say they'd never vote for, then that is a little bit hysterical.

Not to mention, anti-immigration rhetoric is already affecting Polish citizens living in the UK.

In what way?

[Sheilbh]

Since the construction of housing projects (as we call them in our country) would presumably involve changes to the planning laws, why not just change the planning laws and let private builders do it?

Why would you need to change the planning laws?