UKIP poster boy is a racist immigrant, film at 11

[Tamas]

When it was built though the council decided not to lock the main doors, or employ security, or have security cameras because that would be 'social fascism'. Needless to say it attracted lots of problems and became a sink estate.

You realise that is just taking the same approach which makes central London dotted with council-maintained shitholes, and taking it to its logical conclusion. right?

[Gups]

The David Knystan series on post-war Britain  excellent on planning and housing in the 50s and 60s.

[Sheilbh]

I feel sorry for foreign correspondents based in the UK. Having just had to explain how someone lost their job over the white van man photo, they've now got to explain plebgate/gategate

Andrew Mitchell loses Plebgate libel trial
Ruling that former Conservative chief whip probably did use 'politically toxic' word pleb leaves MP with legal bill of up to £3m

• Andrew Mitchell loses libel case – live
Karen McVeigh
The Guardian, Thursday 27 November 2014 17.42 GMT

Andrew Mitchell, the Tory MP and former cabinet minister at the centre of the Plebgate row lost his high court libel trial on Thursday in a ruling which sees him facing a legal bill of millions of pounds and leaves his political career in tatters.

Outside the court, Mitchell told reporters he was bitterly disappointed with the ruling and that it had been "a miserable two years" for him, but that he now hoped to move on with his life.

He had sued News Group Newspapers (NGN) over a September 2012 story in the Sun which claimed he had launched an offensive and arrogant attack on Downing Street police officers who refused to allow him to cycle through the main vehicle gates, branding them "fucking plebs".

The Sun based its report on the account given in his log by PC Toby Rowland.

The judge, Mr Justice Mitting, told the court: "For the reasons given, I'm satisfied, at least on the balance of probabilities that Mr Mitchell did speak the words attributed to him, or so close to them as to amount to the same, the politically toxic word pleb."

In his judgment at the end of the £3m joint libel trial, Mitting described PC Toby Rowland, the police officer who claimed the MP had used the word, as a "rather old fashioned police officer" who was "well-suited to his job" as a member of the Diplomatic Protection Group, and that he believed him.

"He is not the sort of man who had the wit, the imagination or the inclination" to "invent in the spur of the moment what a senior cabinet minister would have said to him" Mitting said, in a ruling which took over two hours.

Neither, Mitting said, did Rowland have the inclination to "perform the pantomime which the invention would require".

After the ruling, in courtroom 13 of the Royal Court of Justice in London, Rowland said that he had tried "everything possible" to stop the need for legal action.

"Even before this trial began I had been cleared of any wrongdoing by four extensive and wide-reaching investigations including a criminal one. I am delighted that here again my innocence, integrity and reputation as a police officer has been recognised."

The joint libel suit began after an altercation between the police officer and the politician at the gates of Downing Street on 19 September 2012, as the MP demanded to be allowed to cycle through the main gates.

Mitchell sued the News Group Newspapers over a story that appeared in the Sun on 21 September 2012, in which Mitchell was alleged to have called Rowland a "fucking pleb". The MP denied using the words attributed to him. Rowland then sued Mitchell, for accusing him of lying.

Mitting described the MP's behaviour as "childish" and found his version of events was inconsistent with the CCTV recording from that evening.

He said, of Mitchell: "I'm satisfied that he did lose his temper" and that the MP's admission that he was "ill-tempered" but did not lose his temper was splitting hairs.

He added that gaps and inconsistencies in PC Rowland's account did not demonstrate he fabricated his account, as Mitchell's lawyers had claimed.

If he was making up his account, PC Rowland would have had to have come up with the words within seconds, according to the judge.

The libel trial, conducted over eight days in the royal court of justice, was a preliminary one to decide on what happened at the gate,

The judge has said there will be a 14-day grace period for all parties to digest his ruling and decide on what action to take.

Mitchell was asked to pay £300,000 costs, split between the parties, by 3 January 2015. Further costs were to be discussed.

Mitchell had been in a hurry to get to the Carlton Club that evening and was expecting to be let through as he had been without difficulty that morning and after lunch. He thought it "extremely odd" when Rowland issued him with a warning under the Public Order Act, but apologised to the officer for his language the next day.

Mitchell agreed that the chief whip's role required a mixture of charm and menace and that he could occasionally be abrasive, but said he did not merit the "extraordinary tsunami of vitriol which descended on my head over a prolonged period of time".

His counsel, James Price QC, said a "web of lies, deceit and indiscipline" by police officers led to a press campaign and public hostility, and the version of the encounter which was leaked to the newspaper by a number of officers was "wholly false". "In the end, the lies brought Mr Mitchell down, destroying a political career of 27 years," he said.

Statements supplied in court by a range of people, from musician Sir Bob Geldof to painter and decorator Richard Robinson, showed he was not a "Tory toff" who would think of putting someone down because of their class, social background or occupational status by use of a "toxic and class-laden" expression like pleb.

But Desmond Browne QC, representing Rowland, claimed Mitchell was a "Jekyll and Hyde" character whose capacity for menace found its outlet in foul temper and foul language. He said the MP was regularly let through the vehicle gates, in the face of the security policy, because of the "unpleasant fuss" he made.

Rowland said he did not know who Mitchell was when he saw the "agitated" MP having a disagreement with a fellow officer and went to speak to him. "I was perfectly calm, perfectly polite. It is quite common to have disagreements about entrances and times people can come and go."

Steve White, chair of the Police Federation of England and Wales, said: "We are pleased that the judge has ruled in PC Toby Rowland's favour. Toby's name has been cleared and his integrity restored.

"Toby has conducted himself with dignity and professionalism in relation to this incident and subsequent inquiries and legal cases.

"It is important that this incident is now brought to a close to allow Toby and his family to look to the future."

[The Brain]

What would have been acceptable? Cunt?

[Tonitrus]

What would have been acceptable? Cunt?

Cunts should always be acceptable.

[Admiral Yi]

Villeins ye are and villeins ye shall remain.

[Tamas]

All kinds of suggestions from Cameron, most reasonable, but also he wants to deport EU citizens unemployed in the UK for six months. 

And there is a suggestion to have EU migrants register with the police.

Soon I will be required to wear a blue star.

[Sheilbh]

All kinds of suggestions from Cameron, most reasonable, but also he wants to deport EU citizens unemployed in the UK for six months. 

Allowed under the treaties after three months. Most countries already do this.

And there is a suggestion to have EU migrants register with the police.

Again standard practice across the continent. Though I agree it's awful.

His big proposal is to restrict EU migrants' the right to in-work benefits (various tax credits) until they've been here for four years and to restrict their right to send them overseas. My understanding is, for the most part, this wouldn't require treaty changes and if he wanted to could be done very soon. It's what Open Europe said was about as much as he could practically do on EU immigration.

Lord Tebbit, of the cricket test, has suggested asking 'on whose side did your fathers or grandfathers fight in the Second World War?' As he pointed out good news for the Poles. Less good news for our resident Magyar or Mrs Farage, who is German.

[The Larch]

What if the answer is "None, my country was neutral", or "One in each side"? 

[Sheilbh]

What if the answer is "None, my country was neutral", or "One in each side"? 

As an Irish 'hidden migrant' I can only assume the correct answer is to scream 'GET OUT' and ship us to New York

[Tamas]

Allowed under the treaties after three months. Most countries already do this.

Ok, but how is that enforceable when you have free movement? Can't somebody just go home, being deported, then board the next plane to London? Or what if an EU citizen is just living here on his accumulated wealth with no intention of finding a job nor claiming a benefit?

[Jacob]

Ok, but how is that enforceable when you have free movement? Can't somebody just go home, being deported, then board the next plane to London? Or what if an EU citizen is just living here on his accumulated wealth with no intention of finding a job nor claiming a benefit?

I would expect - but I don't know - that "unemployed" means "unemployed and claiming benefits"? So if you're just living there, you're just a long term tourist?

Because I very much doubt they intend to deport the independently wealthy... surely?

[Sheilbh]

Ok, but how is that enforceable when you have free movement? Can't somebody just go home, being deported, then board the next plane to London? Or what if an EU citizen is just living here on his accumulated wealth with no intention of finding a job nor claiming a benefit?

I don't know it's not something we do. Because we're not a country with ID cards, or registration at the local Mayor or police or whatever it's also more or less impossible to see how we could do it - this is part of the reason we're not in Schengen.

I think Syt mentioned it's done in Austria. My assumption is that at some point they require you to demonstrate you're in work or have enough capital to support yourself.

I think benefits is more of an issue in the UK than most countries because the majority of ours aren't based on a contributory principle. They're, generally, universal.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Seems to me that Cameron's plans to deal with the evil Europeans is for us to adopt some of their bad habits 

I'm not impressed.

[Duque de Bragança]

Was somebody ever impressed by Cameron?