UKIP poster boy is a racist immigrant, film at 11

[Syt]

I think Syt mentioned it's done in Austria. My assumption is that at some point they require you to demonstrate you're in work or have enough capital to support yourself.

Yes, you have three months to do so; they changed it fortunately after I arrived here. I'm not certain how seriously or rigorously it's enforced, however.

[Martinus]

What if the answer is "None, my country was neutral", or "One in each side"? 

There is a popular joke in Poland, asking with army one's grandfather fought for, especially if coming originally from Silesia.

The safe response is "for the AK" which can mean both "Armia Krajowa" (National Army) - which was the pro-Western underground Polish army - or the Afrika Korps.

[Josquius]

One thing that could potentially help with immigration I've encountered in Switzerland- when applying for an apartment they demand proof of your working permission
We could perhaps do such a thing in Britain, help crack down on those who do rent to (non-EU obviously) illegals.

Yes, you have three months to do so; they changed it fortunately after I arrived here. I'm not certain how seriously or rigorously it's enforced, however.

In Sweden it isn't seriously enforced at all. They know if they do deport somebody at great expense then they can just hop on the next ryanair flight back to Skavsta.

Again standard practice across the continent. Though I agree it's awful.

Why do you think registering with the commune/police/whoever is awful?
It isn't too much of an annoyance.

[Zanza]

And there is a suggestion to have EU migrants register with the police.

Again standard practice across the continent. Though I agree it's awful.

There is a difference between EU migrants having to register with the same municipal authority that locals register with and EU migrants being singled out for registration with the police.

[Martinus]

Are illegal immigrants a problem in the UK? I thought the main objection is to legal immigrants using the welfare system?

[The Brain]

Eastern Europe should have been kept out of the EU. Way way out. Sure, keeping them from automatically joining the Russian sphere has some advantage but it's hardly worth the price of Romanian beggars outnumbering citizens 10:1 in Stockholm.

[Josquius]

Eastern Europe should have been kept out of the EU. Way way out. Sure, keeping them from automatically joining the Russian sphere has some advantage but it's hardly worth the price of Romanian beggars outnumbering citizens 10:1 in Stockholm.

Romania and Bulgaria shouldn't have been admitted so quickly.
The other Eastern Europeans haven't been so bad though. With the possible exception of Hungary.

Are illegal immigrants a problem in the UK? I thought the main objection is to legal immigrants using the welfare system?

Legal immigrants taking advantage of welfare is an issue which riles up the right wing populists to no end but factually isn't actually that much of a problem. Such border-line illegals exist but only in very small numbers.
Illegals...in some areas that is quite a big problem.

[Martinus]

Eastern Europe should have been kept out of the EU. Way way out. Sure, keeping them from automatically joining the Russian sphere has some advantage but it's hardly worth the price of Romanian beggars outnumbering citizens 10:1 in Stockholm.

Romania is a unique cases - their beggars have been a problem in Warsaw already in the 90s.

I don't think Poland is a liability to the EU for example.

[The Brain]

Sacrifice Poland to get rid of Romanians? This requires careful thought.

[Agelastus]

Was somebody ever impressed by Cameron?

No.

And I agree with Richard.

I wonder if part of our issues with politicians is that they're misreading the mood of a chunk of the population. The more they hark on about welfare (not just in relation to immigration) the more un-British and nasty they sound.

[Martinus]

An interesting bit of info from The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21635041-britain-imports-young-sprightly-migrants-and-exports-creaky-old-ones-balance-ailments?frsc=dg%7Cc

Back home in Britain, Westminster politicians, echoing tabloid newspaper grumbles, claim the EU's regime of health-care rights across borders is too generous. They are referring, however, not to the sort of sun-seeking pensioner found in Rabbies, but to those migrants who move to Britain from the union's poorer, eastern and southern member states. David Cameron is planning to unveil tough new measures to curb their access to the British welfare state. But as the scene at Rabbies suggests, Britons benefit from equivalent access in other EU countries. Roughly as many are thought to live in them (slightly under 2m) as do EU nationals in Britain (slightly over 2m). Restricting pan-EU rights to health care will affect elderly Brits living in Spain more than young Poles in Britain.

[Josquius]

Health care is a pretty bad argument considering in most countries you have to pay for doctors.
But that a lot of Brits live overseas too is an excellent point that is always forgotten. I hope if there is an in/out referendum they would get a vote too.

[Sheilbh]

Was somebody ever impressed by Cameron?

He could remember his conference speech so didn't need notes or an autocue!

He was the more moderate candidate. Probably the most Eurosceptic PM we've had but who didn't really discuss immigration in opposition, and told his party to stop 'banging on about Europe'. But the Tories just can't help it

One thing that could potentially help with immigration I've encountered in Switzerland- when applying for an apartment they demand proof of your working permission in the UK.

The Tories suggested that but it got largely dismissed as too much (and privatising a public duty. It also ended up considered a bit racist after one Tory was asked how landlords would know who was or wasn't an immigrant and he said 'you can just tell'

There is a difference between EU migrants having to register with the same municipal authority that locals register with and EU migrants being singled out for registration with the police.

What about if you've a separate office for it like the French? As it is Tamas is the only source I've seen for that proposal, though he may have been mentioned elsewhere.

Are illegal immigrants a problem in the UK? I thought the main objection is to legal immigrants using the welfare system?

Welfare isn't really an objection many people have. There is a perception that we're a 'soft touch' compared to other countries and give immigrants - legal and illegal - generous benefits. It's not really true, but it is reinforced by the odd Islamic extremist preacher living on the dole. Also a lot of people, especially UKIP voters, are pessimistic types who don't really like the UK any more. It's difficult for them to believe that people would come here because it's better than home, or they've got more opportunities here. Benefits explains that. The reason it's been so important to Cameron is that it's the only real course of action on EU immigration he can take, or talk about, that wouldn't need treaty changes. It's possible so it gets played up by the politicians.

The main objection is to immigrants. At the moment they're like Schrodinger's immigrants they may be both stealing our jobs and lazing about on benefits. It used to be about illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. But that's died down a lot because the measures that New Labour took did get that system back in working order (it really did probably break down for a few years). A reason EU migration matters is because it's literally out of our control, which people don't like in an immigration system. It's like the US, if people feel the border's secure then they worry a lot less about the immigrants here.

The other Eastern Europeans haven't been so bad though. With the possible exception of Hungary.

The irony is Hungary was fine during the admission process. This has all happened since they joined. I still don't think the Baltics or Cyprus should've been let in.

The thing about UK migration to the EU is it's a bit different in that it's mostly ex-pats or pensioners who'd probably do it anyway. I think there's relatively few Brits who just up sticks and move within Europe. We go to Australia, New Zealand or Canada or, a little bit, to the US.

The other thing is it's not a strong argument politically. I saw people on Twitter sharing a poll about British support for free movement of British workers in the EU. The point was lots of people are terrible hypocrites. But barely over 50% supported it and around 35-40% were opposed to it. I find it amazing that support for it is so low and opposition so high, and I'd be surprised if there were many EU countries more opposed to free movement for their own citizens.

[Sheilbh]

Open Europe, who've supported this, posted their analysis of the effect it'll have on their blog:
http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/what-impact-will-camerons-eu-free.html

[Martinus]

Health care is a pretty bad argument considering in most countries you have to pay for doctors.

I don't think this is true.