The slow death of free speech

[crazy canuck]

Since there is no American Culture then Elvis is an Icon of _____ culture.  Fill in the blank.

I wouldnt say Elvis was an Icon of "American Culture" whatever that might be.  Elvis is an Icon of early Rock and Roll culture for the whole world.

[mongers]

And he feeds that victim complex that conservatives love but claim they don't have.  "Big climate is taking away our freedom of speech!".

Isn't he getting sued by somebody over it? I suspect that would have an effect on somebody's victim mentality in one way or another.

He's getting sued by "Big Climate"?  I'd like to see a few of the details on that, not least of which who "Big Climate" actually is.

The guy is being sued by God for messing up his creation. :gaia:

[Razgovory]

And he feeds that victim complex that conservatives love but claim they don't have.  "Big climate is taking away our freedom of speech!".

Isn't he getting sued by somebody over it? I suspect that would have an effect on somebody's victim mentality in one way or another.

He's getting sued by "Big Climate"?  I'd like to see a few of the details on that, not least of which who "Big Climate" actually is.

The guy is being sued by God for messing up his creation. :gaia:

Took me a bit but apparently he's being sued for defamation by claiming a scientist knowingly fabricated data.  Academics are touchy about that kind of thing.  Let's see if he actually has to pay damages.

[Jacob]

I thought you didn't care?   Danish and Canadian.  They have some troubling aspects, like suspending judgment for everything but someone else's judgment.  But overall they're superior to American culture, which has the advantage of self-confidence but is ultimately cruel and Hobbesian and failed.

I don't care about where you rank what you suppose my culture is; I was wondering what you thought my culture was. My life, my identity, and my family are all quite multicultural.

We've had this argument before.  A culture can be evil or damaging.

Elements of cultural practice can be damaging and evil, but any given cultural practice - however damaging or evil it may be - is not the sole defining characteristic of a culture. In many cases, there is resistance within a culture to damaging and evil practices. By equating whatever negative trait you're obsessing over at the moment with the culture as a whole, you are delegitimizing the opposition to said practices and supporting the perpetrators of those practices.

By creating and enforcing a rigid taxonomy of cultural traits and imposing it on those around you, you are magnifying causes for intercultural conflict and amplifying the scope of the very traits you claim to abhor.

And criticizing a culture is no more Grallonish than criticizing a political view.  You just think it's racist because it sometimes happens to involve ethnonyms, which is knee-jerk thinking.

I have given little thought to whether the use of ethnonyms in this context is racist. I do, however, think it is lazy and unrigorous thinking, as well as usually being inaccurate and counterproductive.

Then again, one of the hallmarks of Southern white trash culture is the rigid adherence to arbitrary group identity definitions, so there's always a group to feel superior to no matter any individual level of failure; at least "you're not one of them".

Like I suggest earlier in this post, there's plenty of scope for criticizing individual cultural practices. There's plenty of reason to regulate egregious abuses of individual rights, and "it's my culture" is not a valid counter argument on that count. But essentialist hierarchies of objective cultural worth are spurious. Frankly I thought better of you than buying into that kind of shit, but I suppose I simply forgot.

[grumbler]

What the fuck is the difference between a culture and a series of cultural traits?  What would the energetic and forceful dashing grumbler of culture refer to that as?

Dude, take a chill pill.  Then, rethink this question of yours, because the difference between a culture and cultural traits should be obvious.  If it isn't, ask again, and specify which ideas you are having trouble with.

Since there is no American Culture then Elvis is an Icon of _____ culture.  Fill in the blank.

"Since there is no American culture?"  I don't know that this is true.  Surely, there must be some culture, somewhere.

Elvis is an Icon of _pop_ culture

Elvis is an Icon of _lack of_ culture

Elvis is an Icon of _vulture_ culture

[Jacob]

Re: free speech, xkcd has a comic on the subject:

[derspiess]

That's true & all but there's a difference between legal rights regarding speech and the concept of free speech. 

[Jacob]

That's true & all but there's a difference between legal rights regarding speech and the concept of free speech.

Fair enough. I don't think I buy the comic completely myself.

There's a spectrum between expressing disagreement and/or declining to materially support someone expressing their opinion on one hand vs making it impossible for someone to express their opinion altogether because you don't like it on the other. Where exactly we draw the line varies, and may even vary a bit with whether we agree more with the speaker or the ones who disagree.

[Ideologue]

Then again, one of the hallmarks of Southern white trash culture is the rigid adherence to arbitrary group identity definitions, so there's always a group to feel superior to no matter any individual level of failure; at least "you're not one of them".

At least I'm not one of "those" either, that is sanctimonious pricks who use borderline-bigoted language to make a stupid point about how what they wrongly perceive as bigotry is bad.

By creating and enforcing a rigid taxonomy of cultural traits and imposing it on those around you, you are magnifying causes for intercultural conflict and amplifying the scope of the very traits you claim to abhor.

Yeah, it'd be a real dick move if someone aggressively shut down a conversation by enforcing a rigid taxonomy of cultural traits with their loaded vocabulary and blanket condemnation, wouldn't it?  Good thing I didn't do that.

There's plenty of reason to regulate egregious abuses of individual rights, and "it's my culture" is not a valid counter argument on that count. But essentialist hierarchies of objective cultural worth are spurious.

"My culture (and the previous legal regime under which I lived) permit husbands to beat their wives."
"Your culture, despite some better qualities, sucks."

It's not terribly nuanced, but it's neither prejudice nor bigotry nor establishing a "blah blah blah hierarchy" to make myself "feel better."  Guess as a white trash Southerner, just absolutely mired in a legacy of slavery and poverty, I'm just not as bright as a ball of light (and snideness).

[Ideologue]

Oh, incidentally, I obviously had no problem with the Mozilla thing.  But I think I said so in that thread.  Nothing wrong with shaming or marginalizing someone with an incorrect opinion (if it indeed is incorrect).

[The Brain]

Cultures are differently valuable. Some are shit and should be cleansed with atomic fire. Some, while horrible, can be allowed a marginal existence (Japanese). Some are just fine.

[Ideologue]

Brain, as a Swede, do you know any slurs for Danes?  I feel like I don't even have a knife for Jacob's gunfight.

[garbon]

Guess as a white trash Southerner, just absolutely mired in a legacy of slavery and poverty, I'm just not as bright as a ball of light (and snideness).

You guess?

[Ideologue]

Epithets aren't good for anybody.  Knock it off.

[The Brain]

Brain, as a Swede, do you know any slurs for Danes?  I feel like I don't even have a knife for Jacob's gunfight.

To Swedes other Scandinavians kind of fly under the radar. Swedes don't care about the opinion of Danes or Norwegians. The classic on Danes is the hospital roof scene from Lars von Trier's Riget, but I'm not sure how well it travels. Bottom line is there's no real good nasty slur, sorry.