The slow death of free speech

[Ed Anger]

I like tacos. But that is about enough of Mexican culture that I want. I don't need the overuse of eyeliner and makeup on the chicks, the bad driving or the awful music.

Well don't move down here then

Though I cannot help but notice the Tejano and Latino music is sounding more like American pop all the time :valmyplan:

But...the land is so cheap.

[garbon]

I generally agree with you, Malthus, but I don't think the binary is "mosaic" vs "melting pot"; in my view there's a third common approach which is "assimilation".  In my view the  "melting pot"  approach has a goal of the different constituent cultures merging into a single culture, but with each culture contributing various parts; this is different than the not uncommon view that people of different cultures should abandon their culture and simply adopt the allegedly superior majority culture.

There's a difference between abandoning your culture in favour of the state sanctioned culture, and having parts of your culture amalgamated into the state sanctioned one.

Other than that quibble, we are in agreement

I'm not sure what you'd call that 3rd category. Traditionally melting pot and assimilation have been used together - either describing the view that all new members should conform in (there is little enough of new immigrants that when they melt in - they don't change overall flavor of stew to extend the metaphor) or I guess as you are proposing on this version that we all become one culture but different groups add different things.

To be honest, I'e seen the mosaic/salad bowl used more often for that middle way group as I don't know many people who advocate that wildly different cultures should exist in one state with no forming of cultural links.

[Eddie Teach]

Though I cannot help but notice the Tejano and Latino music is sounding more like American pop all the time :valmyplan:

As is country. /sigh

Indy rock is sounding mostly more like pop too, but with some electronica (dubstep) to keep it edgy.

[derspiess]

I agree with the article.

Also I really hate multiculturalism.  Some cultures are different and equal.  Some are different and better.  Some are different and much, much worse.  And we can't have any evolution toward the ideal human culture if debate on which is which is silenced.

Steyn rules.  He's hilarious plus he has a funny accent.

[Maximus]

I agree with the article.

Also I really hate multiculturalism.  Some cultures are different and equal.  Some are different and better.  Some are different and much, much worse.  And we can't have any evolution toward the ideal human culture if debate on which is which is silenced.

"Multiculturalism" is not the idea that all cultures are equally good, much less the notion that the relative worth of cultural expressions cannot be debated - it is the idea that the government should not be in the business of enforcing adherence to one set of cultural norms (usually, those of the majority) over another.

I agree with this at the government level. At the personal level I think there is more.

I would say it involves rejection of the idea of a national or mainstream culture, or at least the rejection of the notion that those not of the mainstream culture are outsiders. I would also say it involves debating the merits and flaws of cultural traits rather than whole-cloth cultures.

Of course that's just my interpretation.

[Razgovory]

I agree with the article.

Also I really hate multiculturalism.  Some cultures are different and equal.  Some are different and better.  Some are different and much, much worse.  And we can't have any evolution toward the ideal human culture if debate on which is which is silenced.

Steyn rules.  He's hilarious plus he has a funny accent.

And he feeds that victim complex that conservatives love but claim they don't have.  "Big climate is taking away our freedom of speech!".

[Valmy]

I would say it involves rejection of the idea of a national or mainstream culture, or at least the rejection of the notion that those not of the mainstream culture are outsiders. I would also say it involves debating the merits and flaws of cultural traits rather than whole-cloth cultures.

If I am to reject the notion of a mainstream American culture than what am I to refer to the mainstream American culture as?

This sounds too complicated.

[MadImmortalMan]

And he feeds that victim complex that conservatives love but claim they don't have.  "Big climate is taking away our freedom of speech!".

Isn't he getting sued by somebody over it? I suspect that would have an effect on somebody's victim mentality in one way or another.

[Ideologue]

Relax.  Your culture wins on both counts.

Yet I embrace multiculturalism.

I don't care where "my culture" ranks in your league tables (and which culture is that?).

I thought you didn't care?   Danish and Canadian.  They have some troubling aspects, like suspending judgment for everything but someone else's judgment.  But overall they're superior to American culture, which has the advantage of self-confidence but is ultimately cruel and Hobbesian and failed.

What I care about is that you have signed on with the grallonites; I had thought better of you.

We've had this argument before.  A culture can be evil or damaging.  And criticizing a culture is no more Grallonish than criticizing a political view.  You just think it's racist because it sometimes happens to involve ethnonyms, which is knee-jerk thinking.

[grumbler]

If I am to reject the notion of a mainstream American culture than what am I to refer to the mainstream American culture as?

This sounds too complicated.

Maybe you could accept the idea that there isn't a "the mainstream American culture," but just a series of cultural traits that we lazily refer to as "American" even though they are not unique to America.

I don't think that there is a mainstream American culture and I haven't suffered due to my lack of belief.  I only use the term "American culture" in the lazy man's sense of the word.

[Valmy]

Maybe you could accept the idea that there isn't a "the mainstream American culture," but just a series of cultural traits that we lazily refer to as "American" even though they are not unique to America.

I don't think that there is a mainstream American culture and I haven't suffered due to my lack of belief.  I only use the term "American culture" in the lazy man's sense of the word.

What the fuck is the difference between a culture and a series of cultural traits?  What would the energetic and forceful dashing grumbler of culture refer to that as?

Since there is no American Culture then Elvis is an Icon of _____ culture.  Fill in the blank.

[garbon]

Maybe you could accept the idea that there isn't a "the mainstream American culture," but just a series of cultural traits that we lazily refer to as "American" even though they are not unique to America.

I don't think that there is a mainstream American culture and I haven't suffered due to my lack of belief.  I only use the term "American culture" in the lazy man's sense of the word.

What the fuck is the difference between a culture and a series of cultural traits?  What would the energetic and forceful dashing grumbler of culture refer to that as?

Since there is no American Culture then Elvis is an Icon of _____ culture.  Fill in the blank.

Well as an example, I was recently re-reading Anglofiles and there was a discussion about British culture. Author recounted a poll that included standard cliches like BBC, stiff upper lip, snobbery, royal family etc. She then noted when looking for an identity some comments back Jack Straw and Orwell that focused in on a quiet celebration of liberty.  All of the above are sort of vaguely true for some but then many aren't also something unique to just one culture.

In the US, that's probably more diffuse where while some of us have some shared cultural items, do they apply to the majority of us? And with the age old Canadian culture vs. American culture, how unique are those items?

edit: Side note (with your Elvis bit) but is culture just the same as pop culture?

[Jacob]

I agree with the article.

Also I really hate multiculturalism.  Some cultures are different and equal.  Some are different and better.  Some are different and much, much worse.  And we can't have any evolution toward the ideal human culture if debate on which is which is silenced.

Steyn rules.  He's hilarious plus he has a funny accent.

Steyn is a clown, and apparently so is Ide.

[Razgovory]

And he feeds that victim complex that conservatives love but claim they don't have.  "Big climate is taking away our freedom of speech!".

Isn't he getting sued by somebody over it? I suspect that would have an effect on somebody's victim mentality in one way or another.

He's getting sued by "Big Climate"?  I'd like to see a few of the details on that, not least of which who "Big Climate" actually is.

[Eddie Teach]

Maybe you could accept the idea that there isn't a "the mainstream American culture," but just a series of cultural traits that we lazily refer to as "American" even though they are not unique to America.

The traits may not be unique, but the combination probably is.