High school is still the same, and it sucks

[merithyn]

I had an interesting conversation with Riley the other day that's kind of disturbed me.

She was talking about how she just can't win with boys her age. (She's almost 15, and in the 9th grade.) If she's nice to them, she's a bitch for leading them on when she doesn't like them. If she's not nice to them, she's a bitch for not being nice. The conversation continued to the fact that it just gets worse when the boys get older.

You're a cocktease if you don't have sex after making out for X amount of time (or if, god forbid, you actually let them touch your tatas ), but if you don't make out with them (or let them touch your tatas), you're a frigid bitch. God forbid you actually have sex with them - and worse, enjoy it! - because then you're just a slut and a whore.

Basically, what we both learned in this conversation is that teenage boys are horrible, horrible creatures. This is how high school girls get into trouble. They really are in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation with these guys. No matter what she does, Riley will be a bitch/slut/whore/frigid bitch.

I really thought we'd be past this 30 years after I was in high school, but no, it's just as bad as ever. Thankfully, Riley is a lot like her mother and thinks they can all go to hell (just like I did), but it sucks that this is still happening.

What about high school did you hope would change, but clearly hasn't? What did you guys have to deal with that put you in a  damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation?

Inquiring minds and all that.

[alfred russel]

The problem with high school is that it is full of teenagers. Until that is fixed, there isn't going to be much change.

[derspiess]

Maybe it was just different in my day, but my high school (for all its faults) did not have that dynamic.  But I guess if you have to choose a label, "frigid bitch" carries less baggage.

[PRC]

"Tatas" is a terrible euphemism for tits.  Just say breasts.

[crazy canuck]

What about high school did you hope would change, but clearly hasn't? What did you guys have to deal with that put you in a  damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation?

Inquiring minds and all that.

High school was a lot of fun.  I wouldnt want to change much of what happened.  Well except that I probably should have spent less time in the gym and more time with the books but it all worked out pretty well in the end.

As for your daughter's experience, it seems pretty extreme to me.  Can't relate either in terms of my own high school days or the experience of my boys now.

[Ideologue]

Yeah, I'm sure slut-shaming is a predominately male problem.

[derspiess]

"Tatas" is a terrible euphemism for tits.  Just say breasts.

I don't have a problem with it.  It's kind of a nice, lighthearted term.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, I'm sure slut-shaming is a predominately male problem.

Of course.  But I didnt see it happening the way Meri describes it when I was in high school and the experience of my boys is quite different than what she is describing. 

[Iormlund]

Meh. I know plenty of guys that won't go around badmouthing girls. They don't now, they didn't then.

If a nice guy is what you want, a nice guy is what you have to go for. Meri, your daughter might not be, but you are certainly old enough to have figured this out by yourself by now.

[Ideologue]

Also, at least she's desired, and not everyone (both boys and girls) are lucky enough to deal with sour grapes from others because no one wanted them in the first place.  Her situation is better than the alternative, although it would take superior insight to realize it, so I don't blame her if she doesn't.

Of course.  But I didnt see it happening the way Meri describes it when I was in high school and the experience of my boys is quite different than what she is describing. 

I was being sarcastic to Meri; my experience is that slut-shaming is primarily a means of social control undertaken by women rather than by men.  (Though men can be collaborators.)

[Barrister]

Maybe it was just different in my day, but my high school (for all its faults) did not have that dynamic.

My high school definitely did not have that dynamic.

But then again, it was an all-boys school. 



Do guys really use that kind of language directly to the girl's face?  To the extent I can remember people using that kind of language, it was usually just in some kind of ignorant "consolation" to the guy.  'Your girlfriend dumped you to go out with some other guy?  Forget her, she's just a whore anyways.' (Not that I ever used that kind of language)

[derspiess]

Of course.  But I didnt see it happening the way Meri describes it when I was in high school and the experience of my boys is quite different than what she is describing. 

Same here, but I suppose it differs by school environment and maybe different social circles within each school. 

[crazy canuck]

Also, at least she's desired, and not everyone (both boys and girls) are lucky enough to deal with sour grapes from others because no one wanted them in the first place.  Her situation is better than the alternative, although it would take superior insight to realize it, so I don't blame her if she doesn't.

Of course.  But I didnt see it happening the way Meri describes it when I was in high school and the experience of my boys is quite different than what she is describing. 

I was being sarcastic to Meri; my experience is that slut-shaming is primarily a means of social control undertaken by women rather than by men.  (Though men can be collaborators.)

I dont know about that.  When I was in high school the few girls who would have sex with anyone were well known as "sluts".

[crazy canuck]

Of course.  But I didnt see it happening the way Meri describes it when I was in high school and the experience of my boys is quite different than what she is describing. 

Same here, but I suppose it differs by school environment and maybe different social circles within each school.

Agreed

[Barrister]

Also, at least she's desired, and not everyone (both boys and girls) are lucky enough to deal with sour grapes from others because no one wanted them in the first place.  Her situation is better than the alternative, although it would take superior insight to realize it, so I don't blame her if she doesn't.

Of course.  But I didnt see it happening the way Meri describes it when I was in high school and the experience of my boys is quite different than what she is describing. 

I was being sarcastic to Meri; my experience is that slut-shaming is primarily a means of social control undertaken by women rather than by men.  (Though men can be collaborators.)

I dont know about that.  When I was in high school the few girls who would have sex with anyone were well known as "sluts".

I never understood that dynamic, even as a teenager.

If I want women to sleep with me, then surely it's a bad idea to discourage that behaviour by calling them "sluts"?