Liberation Theology is in - should Yi be concerned?

[Razgovory]

I'm not actually clear who the scientist was who was burned at the stake.  I assume it was Bruno, but he really wasn't a scientist though he is celebrated as one sometimes.

Miguel Servet (Michael Servetus?).

That was not Catholics who did that.

[celedhring]

I'm not actually clear who the scientist was who was burned at the stake.  I assume it was Bruno, but he really wasn't a scientist though he is celebrated as one sometimes.

Miguel Servet (Michael Servetus?).

That was not Catholics who did that.

True, forgot it was Calvin's lot.

[Beenherebefore]

Witchburning was more of a Protestant thing than Catholic, I think. In Norway, the number of women tried as witches was staggeringly high for such a small population.
Then again, it gets cold here in winter.

[PDH]

This thread would be better if it was about beer and nurses.

[Beenherebefore]

What about witches, beer and nurses? And Swedish-made penis-enlarger pumps?

[Sheilbh]

Witchburning was more of a Protestant thing than Catholic, I think. In Norway, the number of women tried as witches was staggeringly high for such a small population.
Then again, it gets cold here in winter.

Yep. Almost no examples in Spain or Italy. Ireland got off the lightest in this sort of thing. Not a Catholic state so it didn't have an inquisition, but mainly influenced by Spanish Catholicism so no witch-hysteria. Unfortunately Ireland was fucked in every other way

Witch hunts killed about as many as the inquisition. I think both were probably examples of societies looking for an enemy within to blame and punish. In the Protestant world it was witches (and some heretics) in the Catholic heretics (and some witches) and in Iberia secret Jews and Muslims (and some heretics).

[Beenherebefore]

There are a few books about the witch trials in Norway. The further north you got, the more likely any female was a witch, it seems.

http://www.witchcraftandwitches.com/trials_vardo.html

Your reasoning concerning the motivations probably holds water.

But wasn't Jan Huss burnt at the stake? And Joan of Arc?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. Witch hunts exist before the Reformation all across Europe. But they are comparatively few. In 17th century Europe (and North America) there's an enormous increase in inquisitions and witch hunts.

Generally the witch hunts take place in Protestant areas (with the exception of Germany where it's more or less universal).

It is interesting to ask why. I think part of it is probably a response to the end of Medieval society and social structures. The Protestant and Catholic Reformations destroy many local differences and different aspects of popular culture. At the same time these steps centralise states and begin to create modern Europe. I think this is part of that process and a popular response to it (official inquisitions and witch hunts were often a response to local, lay allegations and suspicions).

Maybe it could also be part of the reformation of manners where you see the state and the church taking far more interest in individual behaviour (I think the Medieval understanding was more collective). So the role of women changes and becomes far more subservient after the 17th century than was the case in the Medieval period. There's also far more prosecutions of sodomy (often tied to heresy in the Catholic world). Again awful but a part of the ideological drive that created modern Europe and European culture.

[Razgovory]

Speaker Boehner invited the Pope to speak in front of Congress.

[Valmy]

Yeah. Witch hunts exist before the Reformation all across Europe. But they are comparatively few. In 17th century Europe (and North America) there's an enormous increase in inquisitions and witch hunts.

Hey!  New England only burned like 50 people.

I liked the museum in Salem.  They had a nice little summary of the events but most of it was this big plea to stop persecuting Wiccans.  I was like, um you do realize none of the people burned in the Salem Witch Trials were actual witches right?  That is the whole meaning of the term 'witch hunt'.

[Sheilbh]

....He's not planning a visit to the US

Also it's been a year and he's had one trip abroad (Brazil for World Youth Day). It doesn't feel like he's a pilgrim Pope like JPII or even BXVI. I wouldn't be surprised if he only visited Argentina and the World Youth Day cities

[Beenherebefore]

Interesting thoughts. I would be inclined to think you're mostly right, Sheilbh.

Maybe the "lesser ice age" also played a part with more calamity for what was mostly a rural uneducated (yet educated in Luther's catechism) agrarian people. People started hearing the Bible read in their own language, but by ministers at least up here sorely lacking in education. One notable exception is Peter Dass.


On a very different note, I remember being forced to remember Luther's catechism in school. So much for socialist education.

[The Brain]

Yeah. Witch hunts exist before the Reformation all across Europe. But they are comparatively few. In 17th century Europe (and North America) there's an enormous increase in inquisitions and witch hunts.

Hey!  New England only burned like 50 people.

I liked the museum in Salem.  They had a nice little summary of the events but most of it was this big plea to stop persecuting Wiccans.  I was like, um you do realize none of the people burned in the Salem Witch Trials were actual witches right?  That is the whole meaning of the term 'witch hunt'.

How do you know they weren't witches?

[Beenherebefore]

The ashes showed no evidence of tail.

[Sheilbh]

Maybe the "lesser ice age" also played a part with more calamity for what was mostly a rural uneducated (yet educated in Luther's catechism) agrarian people. People started hearing the Bible read in their own language, but by ministers at least up here sorely lacking in education. One notable exception is Peter Dass.

I'd not thought of that but you're probably right. Add in the calamities of war in Britain and Germany and it's easy to understand why you'd want someone to blame.