Liberation Theology is in - should Yi be concerned?

[Jacob]

Prosperity theology is the teaching that wealth is a sign of God's favor; if you're rich, God really loves you.  If you're not, God doesn't love you as much.

Who in the catholic Church has taught that?  Sounds more Anglican than Catholic.

Apparently the El Shaddai movement from the Phillippines has imported Prosperity Theology into the Catholic Church; and has grown outside of that country as well.

I don't think Prosperity Theology is particularly Anglican; my understanding is that it's more prevalent amongst (some) Charismatic and non-conformist protestant denominations.

[MadImmortalMan]

Why is communism so popular around the world, when all their social experiments have failed?

I don't understand. Why follow a failed ideology?
I mean, wasn't the failure of the Soviet Union enough?
Wasn't the Chinese conversion to State Capitalism under communist leadership the ultimate proof that communism and Marxism don't work?

Weren't you a big supporter of at least local socialism years ago?

[Viking]

Scandinavia hasn't failed.

Iceland is the poster child for casino banking
Norway is Kuwait
Sweden sold off Volvo to China


Socialism has failed, the reason Scandinavia hasn't is that the political discussion is about how much socialism the society can afford. Socialism isn't a viable alternative to capitalism, it's a good that must be paid for. All attempts at society wide socialism have failed because the only way to pay for that kind of socialism is by consuming societies capital to pay for it.

[Tamas]

So again, what is the big deal here? Rhetorics are worthless: all religions are full of messages of peace and dignity and helping your fellow man, and none of that stops people from being selfish, greedy, and violent in the name of those religions. So why should we care for this liberation theology thing?

[grumbler]

Apparently the El Shaddai movement from the Phillippines has imported Prosperity Theology into the Catholic Church; and has grown outside of that country as well.

I don't think Prosperity Theology is particularly Anglican; my understanding is that it's more prevalent amongst (some) Charismatic and non-conformist protestant denominations.

The only El Shaddai movement I can find reference to is Jewish.  I don't understand how an unknown movement in the Philippines can be so influential that the overturning of their doctrine in favor of "liberation theology" can be worth notice.

And this is Catholic doctrine we are discussing, right?  I mean, what the Pope says doesn't really impact "(some) Charismatic and non-conformist protestant denominations," does it?

So, again, if Catholic doctrine must be either "Liberation Theology" or "Prosperity Theology," and it isn't prosperity Theology, then is an embrace of Liberation Theology (defined as you have defined it here) any change at all?

[grumbler]

So again, what is the big deal here? Rhetorics are worthless: all religions are full of messages of peace and dignity and helping your fellow man, and none of that stops people from being selfish, greedy, and violent in the name of those religions. So why should we care for this liberation theology thing?

Again, I think that it only matters in an intellectual sense unless you are Catholic; for you and me, Catholic theology is about as applicable as Norse or Babylonian theology.  Still, the intellectual interest should be there, given that it is nice to understand how other people think, so as to make their actions and decisions comprehensible.

[crazy canuck]

So, again, if Catholic doctrine must be either "Liberation Theology" or "Prosperity Theology,"

Who said Catholic doctrine must be one or the other?  By the way Prosperity theology is most prominant in US televangislists it has very little to do with Anglican belief as you first asserted.

[crazy canuck]

So again, what is the big deal here? Rhetorics are worthless: all religions are full of messages of peace and dignity and helping your fellow man, and none of that stops people from being selfish, greedy, and violent in the name of those religions. So why should we care for this liberation theology thing?

The Catholic faith is still influential despite what Grumbler might assert and so what the Pope says still matters to millions of people.

[grumbler]

Who said Catholic doctrine must be one or the other?  By the way Prosperity theology is most prominant in US televangislists it has very little to do with Anglican belief as you first asserted.

I asked what liberation theology was, and was told that it was "a nice contrast to things like prosperity theology."  No other competing theologies have been mentioned here, which is why i am wondering why anyone would think the pope's apparent acceptance of liberation theology marks any change.

And, btw, you might want to practice that reading comprehension.  I nowhere asserted that Prosperity Theology had much to do with Anglicanism.  I tongue-in-cheek said that it "sounds more Anglican than Catholic." What TV evangelists have to do with the Pope escapes me.

[grumbler]

So again, what is the big deal here? Rhetorics are worthless: all religions are full of messages of peace and dignity and helping your fellow man, and none of that stops people from being selfish, greedy, and violent in the name of those religions. So why should we care for this liberation theology thing?

The Catholic faith is still influential despite what cRaZy CaNuCk might assert and so what the Pope says still matters to millions of people, as I have pointed out above.

[crazy canuck]

I asked what liberation theology was, and was told that it was "a nice contrast to things like prosperity theology." 

Even you, in your height of rhetoric, must recognize that a "nice contrast" does not mean the only other alternative.  Further, I am shocked, shocked I say, that you would make such an error of logic to attempt to make a point.

[crazy canuck]

So again, what is the big deal here? Rhetorics are worthless: all religions are full of messages of peace and dignity and helping your fellow man, and none of that stops people from being selfish, greedy, and violent in the name of those religions. So why should we care for this liberation theology thing?

The Catholic faith is still influential despite what cRaZy CaNuCk might assert and so what the Pope says still matters to millions of people, as I have pointed out above.

As usual you miss the point.  I think it is on purpose because you cannot be that stupid.  You asserted that what Catholics think is no more important to you than some dead religion other than out of some curiousity as to how they think.  But I have to think you cannot be so daft as not to notice the impact of religious believe has on the lifes of the non religious.  Your country is perhaps the best example of how religious views can influence the political process.

[grumbler]

As usual you miss the point.  I think it is on purpose because you cannot be that stupid.  You asserted that what Catholics think is no more important to you than some dead religion other than out of some curiousity as to how they think.  But I have to think you cannot be so daft as not to notice the impact of religious believe has on the lifes of the non religious.  Your country is perhaps the best example of how religious views can influence the political process.

As usual, you fail basic reading comprehension.  I don't think it is deliberate because maybe you can be that stupid.  I asserted that Catholic doctrine doesn't apply to Tamas or myself any more than doctrine of other religions, because we are not religious and so don't have to follow such doctrine.  I then pointed out that we should be intellectually interested in Catholic doctrine because it helps us understand why believers in said doctrine decide and act as they do.  You now argue that I am wrong because... and then repeat my second point back to me as though you had just invented it yourself.  I am sorry, but lack of reading ability on your part does not entitle you to steal my arguments!

[grumbler]

I asked what liberation theology was, and was told that it was "a nice contrast to things like prosperity theology." 

Even you, in your height of rhetoric, must recognize that a "nice contrast" does not mean the only other alternative.  Further, I am shocked, shocked I say, that you would make such an error of logic to attempt to make a point.

I notice that you snipped the rest of my argument and now argue based on the absence of things I said but you snipped!  I am shocked that you would stoop to such intellectual dishonesty... not.

[Sheilbh]

So again, what is the big deal here? Rhetorics are worthless: all religions are full of messages of peace and dignity and helping your fellow man, and none of that stops people from being selfish, greedy, and violent in the name of those religions. So why should we care for this liberation theology thing?

As I said earlier I think that the Church is unlikely to have another European Pope for a long time. Instead we are likely to see Pope's from the developing world (where the Church is young, growing and vital). Given the global media attention on a Pope, especially when they're charming, that will make the Pope the loudest, most prominent voice of the developing world and one with a particular focus on fighting inequality and highlighting the dangers of unrestrained capitalism. It's like the focus JPII was able to provide for anti-Communists.

Whether the Pope matters to millions of people as in practicing Catholics I think is less important than the fact that there's going to be a very loud global advocate for the poor. Again it's something the Church has always done but I think it mattered less when the Pope was JPII (no-one cared about his warning to Poland not to rush into unrestrained capitalism) or Benedict (no-one cared that he's the first Pope to try a theology of the environment) because it wasn't their personal brand. I think we're going to have Argentine, Brazilian, Filipino and Ghanian Popes in the near future for whom fighting poverty will be key to their identity.

It'll be a good thing for global discourse.