Black History Month 2014

[grumbler]

Of course, Viking seems tone deaf about race in America (despite having lived here), so not surprising that he takes the stance that he does.

You get a Gold Medal in the Ad Hom Competition. 

Except it was accurate and relevant to Viking's contentions about race and how we should all just get over it.

Except that it was an argument aimed at the man rather than the argument, and thus not responsive to his point at all.

I just call them as I see them.  If you can't tell the difference between an ad hom and an intellectual argument, go to http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ and read up.

[Malthus]

Finally, your insistence the everyone should be like you, that your particular cultural proclivities should be emulated by all in your state, creates stronger us-vs-them dynamics in society than the letting everyone be themselves within a multicultural framework. Ironically, you insistence on unity creates division, while embracing diversity encourages unity.

Ironically, you are pursuing an exclusive definition of multiculturalism (that dismisses Viking's use by claiming that "Multi-culturalism has nothing to do with worrying about.... issues [such as Viking raises]") which is contrary to what most people think of as a basic tenet of multiculturalism:  the idea that many different ideas all have value.

And it is interesting that Viking, in posing a question, is read by you as "insist[ing] that everyone should be like [him]."  That's quite the intolerant, mono-cultural approach! 

I dunno what "most people think". In my view, the central tenant of multi-culturalism is respect for people of other cultures, not imposing one's own cultural norms upon them  - not a value-judgment about their ideas.

In short, if I was pursuing multicultural policies, I can think that their ideas suck, say that they suck, but defend their right to express them (within the law) - something akin to the US official approach to religion or speech, but extended to matters cultural other than religion.

[garbon]

Of course, Viking seems tone deaf about race in America (despite having lived here), so not surprising that he takes the stance that he does.

You get a Gold Medal in the Ad Hom Competition. 

Except it was accurate and relevant to Viking's contentions about race and how we should all just get over it.

Except that it was an argument aimed at the man rather than the argument, and thus not responsive to his point at all.

I just call them as I see them.  If you can't tell the difference between an ad hom and an intellectual argument, go to http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ and read up.

I wasn't interested in responding to his "argument" so you can totally have that point.

[garbon]

At any rate, g, I'd rather you cast your withering gaze elsewhere.

[Eddie Teach]

If we banned the words "Ad" and "Straw" I think that Grumbler's posting output we be down by about half.

If we banned Grumbler and Yi, your posting output would probably be taken down more than half.

[grumbler]

I dunno what "most people think". In my view, the central tenant of multi-culturalism is respect for people of other cultures, not imposing one's own cultural norms upon them  - not a value-judgment about their ideas.

You earlier argued that multiculturalism had "nothing to do" with a comparison of the outcomes in material production of various societies/cultures.  There is no "value judgement" to comparing per capita GDPs, except the value judgement of which measurement of GDP to use.

In short, if I was pursuing multicultural policies, I can think that their ideas suck, say that they suck, but defend their right to express them (within the law) - something akin to the US official approach to religion or speech, but extended to matters cultural other than religion.

This is tangential to Viking's point (which I don't completely agree with, btw).  He was saying that guys like Diamond are engaged in a type of multicultural studies, and you are (apparently) arguing that Diamond et al were not.  In this case, I think Viking is correct. 

[grumbler]

I wasn't interested in responding to his "argument" so you can totally have that point.

Okay.

[grumbler]

At any rate, g, I'd rather you cast your withering gaze elsewhere.

You are free to leave.  If you reserve the right to read and post, however, I'd rather that you not tell me where you want me to read or post.

[garbon]

At any rate, g, I'd rather you cast your withering gaze elsewhere.

You are free to leave.  If you reserve the right to read and post, however, I'd rather that you not tell me where you want me to read or post.

And I'd rather you didn't reply to me.

[Jacob]

At any rate, g, I'd rather you cast your withering gaze elsewhere.

You are free to leave.  If you reserve the right to read and post, however, I'd rather that you not tell me where you want me to read or post.

garbon is free to tell you what he wants you to read or post.

[Malthus]

You earlier argued that multiculturalism had "nothing to do" with a comparison of the outcomes in material production of various societies/cultures.  There is no "value judgement" to comparing per capita GDPs, except the value judgement of which measurement of GDP to use.

Huh?

"Multiculturalism" has nothing to do with comparative GDPs.

This is tangential to Viking's point (which I don't completely agree with, btw).  He was saying that guys like Diamond are engaged in a type of multicultural studies, and you are (apparently) arguing that Diamond et al were not.  In this case, I think Viking is correct.

What are "multicultural studies"? Are you conflating "multiculturalism" with "cultural relativism"? The two are not the same thing. 

I'm talking about actual multicultualism - that is, its use in policy-making, within our society. I really have no idea of what use you are making of the term.

As in: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-18.7/page-1.html

Or: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/24/multiculturalism-in-its-controversial-glory-is-canada-a-country-without-a-core-culture/

[Ed Anger]

I cast my withering gaze at Tim.

He still hasn't melted yet

[Admiral Yi]

I cast my withering gaze at Tim.

He still hasn't melted yet

Duh, he's withered.  Try your melting gaze.

[Malthus]

I cast my withering gaze at Tim.

He still hasn't melted yet

Duh, he's withered.  Try your melting gaze.

"Casting a melting gaze" at someone sounds like something the heroine from a 19th century romance would do. 

[CountDeMoney]

"Casting a melting gaze" at someone sounds like something the heroine from a 19th century romance would do. 

It certainly ripped my bodice.