Chris Christie's Bullying, Revisited

[Razgovory]

Do we have this on Languish?

Seriously, is he, like, the Rob Ford of America, but without a drinking problem as an excuse to smoke crack and push people around?

He's got a penchant for shouting and insulting people that question him.  Also, there are now three scandals surrounding him involving potential misappropriation of relief funds for recovery from Hurricane Sandy: 1) allegedly bypassing the bidding process and using Sandy funds to produce commercials featuring him and his family (this one is the subject of a NJAG investigation right now), 2) the lieutenant governor reportedly implying that Hoboken was getting screwed for funding because they weren't approving projects the Governor's office liked, and now 3) allegedly diverting unnecessary Sandy relief funds to Belleville (where no citizens were displaced) to bankroll a senior housing complex.

Bypassing a bidding process can get you in serious trouble.  Far more then shouting at people.

[DontSayBanana]

Bypassing a bidding process can get you in serious trouble.  Far more then shouting at people.

I never claimed otherwise.  Anyway, so can diverting federal funds.

[The Brain]

He seems like a bully on all 8 of the videos.  I'll give you the reasons why I think that after the videos finally load.

[Sheilbh]

What the fuck does this even mean?  Do you people think we just sit around and verbally abuse each other all day long?  I wonder how many of these newly-surfaced experts on New Jersey culture actually spent a day in New Jersey.

No-one's claiming expertise or saying this is what New Jersey's like. But he fills the stereotype as surely as Haley Barbour. There's a stereotype from popular culture. Just be glad you're not in Mississippi or, say, Appalachia

Because if Christie were responding like that to a neutral, benign comment or question, he would be a psychotic.

Haven't most of these videos started from his office? I remember reading about his team filming these 'magic moments' to put on Youtube to build his brand.

That's another issue I have. I'm more sympathetic to a politician who loses it and is rude than to someone who is rude to voters in a calculated way.

And his numerous enemies in the media would be bending over backwards to demonstrate how benign the comments were.

'Numerous enemies'. Which Roger Ailes biography were you reading?

I think the press probably love him because he's good copy.

Observation.  The media.

What about all the town hall hecklers during Obamacare? That seemed to really help catalyse the Tea Party during 2010. I've seen numerous anti-immigration and Europe hecklers here. A fair few Republican politicians and Democrats (including Obama) have been heckled over immigration in the last year or two.

My view is that it's people who feel they're not heard. During the 80s and the 2000s it was the left. During the 90s I imagine it was the anti-NAFTA/Buchananist wing of things. At the minute I think it's the right. In addition there's groups who feel alienated or ignored by the entire political class, rightly or wrongly, such as gay rights activists until very recently.

I think your point's like if someone said political violence is the province of the right.

They were cherrypicked by Mother Jones.

Okay. But one of them is from the Governor Christie Youtube channel and four of the others are from a 'Chris Christie' Youtube channel. I don't know if that's connected to him at all, but it's got plenty of views and videos. Here's the six most popular from that channel:
Chris Christie calls reporter stupid...
Chris Christie owns hecklers...
Chris Christie gets into a shouting match... (there's two versions of this, both in the most popular)
Chris Christie destroys reporter...
Chris Christie destroys President Obama... It's almost impressive in the last one that he's picking on someone his own size.

For me that's the issue. This is his schtick and these videos are used by him and his supporters to boost him.

[Admiral Yi]

'Numerous enemies'. Which Roger Ailes biography were you reading?

Oh puleeze.  You think the editorial boards of Mother Jones, The Progressive, Soujourners, the New York Times, and the management of MSNBC would shed copious tears of joy if Christie weren't seen by the American public badly??

What about all the town hall hecklers during Obamacare? That seemed to really help catalyse the Tea Party during 2010. I've seen numerous anti-immigration and Europe hecklers here. A fair few Republican politicians and Democrats (including Obama) have been heckled over immigration in the last year or two.

I'll offer you the same bet I offered La Croix, then you'll say you don't bet, then I'll say just keep a weather eye during the next presidential election and then tell me if you still think I'm wrong.

Okay. But one of them is from the Governor Christie Youtube channel and four of the others are from a 'Chris Christie' Youtube channel. I don't know if that's connected to him at all, but it's got plenty of views and videos. Here's the six most popular from that channel:
Chris Christie calls reporter stupid...
Chris Christie owns hecklers...
Chris Christie gets into a shouting match... (there's two versions of this, both in the most popular)
Chris Christie destroys reporter...
Chris Christie destroys President Obama... It's almost impressive in the last one that he's picking on someone his own size.

For me that's the issue. This is his schtick and these videos are used by him and his supporters to boost him.

If you can demonstrate to me that Christie, or his administration, or his personal staff, or anyone fucking related to the guy by marriage has control over that site, I'll concede he's the worst asshole ever considered for federal office and nuke this poll from orbit.

[Scipio]

Of course he's a fucking bully, he's a former US Attorney for New Jersey.

How is this a debate?

The man is a thug, in charge of a state full of thugs. It's where he belongs. He's the capo di tutti capi of mesh-shirt wearing Jerseyite assholes. And the people of the state love it.

[DontSayBanana]

Of course he's a fucking bully, he's a former US Attorney for New Jersey.

How is this a debate?

The man is a thug, in charge of a state full of thugs. It's where he belongs. He's the capo di tutti capi of mesh-shirt wearing Jerseyite assholes. And the people of the state love it.

The Republican narrative has always been that he was surprisingly popular, but frankly, it was almost an even split until Sandy boosted his ratings:

[derspiess]

It's surprising for any Republican to be even somewhat popular there, so the narrative holds IMO.

[DGuller]

It's surprising for any Republican to be even somewhat popular there, so the narrative holds IMO.

Another non-resident expert on New Jersey.

[CountDeMoney]

It's surprising for any Republican to be even somewhat popular there, so the narrative holds IMO.

Another non-resident expert on New Jersey.

Only the truest of the true conservative faithful can be found in the south and midwest;  the rest are poseurs, or emotionally compromised.

[DGuller]

It's really not about that, but rather about combining two big fallacies at once.  One fallacy is that being a local Republican means the same thing in every state, and the other fallacy is that New Jersey is a very blue state.  Apart from that, it's also about extreme intellectual laziness.  A simple Google search can show you that New Jersey governors have been pretty evenly split between Republicans and Democrats going back quite a long time, even during the last two decades when New Jersey always voted for a Democratic presidential candidate.

[CountDeMoney]

Apart from that, it's also about extreme intellectual laziness.

derspiess is not intellectually lazy.  It's a lot of work to develop those fucked up viewpoints. 

[Sheilbh]

Oh puleeze.  You think the editorial boards of Mother Jones, The Progressive, Soujourners, the New York Times, and the management of MSNBC would shed copious tears of joy if Christie weren't seen by the American public badly??

No. I think they'd shed tears if he left the scene to be replaced by someone like Mitch Daniels.

Also none of them really matter (maybe MSNBC and NYT), you may as well throw in New Left Review.

I'll offer you the same bet I offered La Croix, then you'll say you don't bet, then I'll say just keep a weather eye during the next presidential election and then tell me if you still think I'm wrong.

I don't bet. But why just focus on Presidential candidates (incidentally the most prominent recent heckle, 'you lie!' aside, was 'iron my shirt'). And surely what matters is the message of the heckler not the victim?

If you can demonstrate to me that Christie, or his administration, or his personal staff, or anyone fucking related to the guy by marriage has control over that site, I'll concede he's the worst asshole ever considered for federal office and nuke this poll from orbit.

Most of these were originally on his YouTube channel - if you go to the original articles about them the links take you to his account but they're not all there anymore. You'll also note in most of the videos the audio is from the mic - not from a camera or a phone recording - so often we can't here what the offending person's done to Christie because they don't have the mic after they've asked their question.

But here's the source:

But Christie was holding the town hall to do more than just promote his agenda; he was also trying to gin up some Internet content. While his fellow governors tend to use their official YouTube channels to show ribbon-cuttings and speeches, Christie, a former federal prosecutor who relishes the thrust and parry of political debate, has turned his into a video library of gubernatorial smackdowns—which, after just ten months in office, are already so numerous that his admirers are able to rank their favorites. Like the one he delivered at a town hall in Rutherford, where he told a public-school teacher complaining about her salary that "teachers go into it knowing what the pay scale is" and that if she didn't like what she was being paid, "then you don't have to do it." Or another he dished out to a reporter who asked him about his "confrontational tone." "You must be the thinnest-skinned guy in America," Christie replied, "because you think that's a confrontational tone? Then you should really see me when I'm pissed."

Almost everywhere Christie goes, he is filmed by an aide whose job is to capture these "moments," as the governor's staff has come to call them. When one occurs, Christie's press shop splices the video and uploads it to YouTube; from there, conservatives throughout the country share Christie clips the way tween girls circulate Justin Bieber videos. "The YouTube stuff is golden," says Rich Lowry, the editor of National Review. "I can't tell you how many people forward them to me." One video on Christie's YouTube channel—a drubbing he delivered to another aggrieved public-school teacher at a town hall in September—has racked up over 750,000 views.

Now in Moorestown, Christie was hoping to create another such moment. After some introductory remarks, he opened the floor to questions. "For those of you who have seen some of my appearances on YouTube," he cautioned, peeling off his suit jacket as he spoke, "this is when it normally happens." Then, recognizing the man who was first in line at the microphone, Christie began to grin. "This could happen right here, ladies and gentlemen! This guy at times has the tendency to annoy me ... Get ready! If you have your own cameras, start rolling!" But the man proceeded to lob Christie a softball, asking why the Legislature wouldn't pass the governor's education proposals. And the subsequent questions from the audience only got softer, as it seemed that everyone at the town hall was a supporter. "I want to take this moment to say two words to you, and that is thank you," said one woman, not even bothering with a question. Christie did his best to pepper his responses with bombastic shots at his absent political opponents—"This is the crap I have to listen to," he said of some of their criticisms—but the performance soon became like watching a prizefighter shadowbox.

Finally, after more than an hour, it was time for the last question. A middle-aged African-American woman stepped to the microphone. "I did not vote for you," she said in a strong voice, "and I reject your unwillingness to reconsider the tunnel." The previous day, Christie had announced he was killing a proposed train tunnel under the Hudson River between North Jersey and Manhattan because his state's share of the construction costs was too high. "I reject the notion that we can't afford an investment," the woman said. "I want the governor to address this issue of investment."

"Sure, okay, well, here we go," Christie replied, before the woman started to interrupt him. He held up his hand. "Hold on! I've listened, so now let me answer." Christie is the rare politician who is obese—his weight probably approaches 300 pounds—and, up on the stage, he now appeared to loom even larger. Staring down at the woman, he launched into a lengthy, at times pedantic, explanation of the tunnel's funding formula, the likelihood of cost overruns, and the budgetary calculations that led him to conclude that New Jersey simply didn't have the money to pay for the project. Each time the woman tried to interject, he cut her off—"Look at me, please," he instructed her at one point—until eventually, she fell silent and stood awkwardly as he continued his monologue.

http://nymag.com/news/politics/69677/

From the NYT when these videos first started taking off:

Since Mr. Christie took office in January, his staff has spread his message on YouTube, posting sharply edited videos of him talking tough or dressing down hostile questioners, a stark contrast with the set pieces that make up most other politicians' offerings online.

The style and sheer size of the oeuvre — 163 videos — has helped make Mr. Christie, a Republican in a largely Democratic state, a YouTube sensation, with myriad fans around the country who can describe his goals, dislikes and manner.

"A lot of the political stuff online is really dry, but with Christie, there's an entertainment factor," said Nicco Mele, who teaches a class on the Internet and politics at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. "These videos don't seem professionally produced, even though they are."

Mr. Mele, who worked on Internet strategy for Howard Dean's bid for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004, noted that "until now, the most visible impact YouTube has had on politics is catching gaffes, but that's changing." He said Mr. Christie's approach was "very smart and unusual," predicting "you'll see other people adopt it."

In the last two years, it has become standard for major political figures to have their own YouTube channels, allowing them to present a carefully tailored image directly to the public. But Mr. Christie's effort, and its response, have been anything but standard.

...

But experts said Mr. Christie's effective, animated speaking style was enhanced by the videography style of his aides.

Many clips are less than five minutes long, and generally have an impromptu, almost homemade feel, shot with a hand-held camera in school gyms and firehouses, carefully edited to show Mr. Christie at his most earnest and funny, pacing with a microphone and giving detailed answers to constituents' questions.

There he is at an October town-hall-style meeting in Monmouth Junction, dripping with sarcasm as he characterizes the Legislature as being overly concerned with trivial issues. There he is ridiculing the teachers' union this fall in Scotch Plains, and back in June in Robbinsville, comparing it to a playground bully.

"I've said, 'You punch them, I punch you,' " he said. "The fight is about who is going to run public education in New Jersey — the parents and the people they elect, or the mindless, faceless union leaders who decide that they're going to be the ones who are going to run it because they have the money and the authority to bully around school boards and local councils."

People who have worked for Mr. Christie say that he is perfectly capable of modulating his tone and that he can use scolding and ridicule strategically. YouTube viewers, though, hear the governor saying with a shrug that this is just who he is.

"I have an Irish father, and I had — and I had before she passed away six years ago, a Sicilian mother," he told an audience in May. "For those of you who have been exposed to the combination of Irish and Sicilian, it has made me not unfamiliar with conflict."

As I say it's his brand which has been scrupulously built and maintained but could be a problem. There's a reason the Chris Christie YouTube channel (don't know who runs that) and the Governor Christie one have way more subscribers than any other GOP politician I can find and it's not because people are desperately interested in New Jersey.

[Admiral Yi]

Also none of them really matter (maybe MSNBC and NYT), you may as well throw in New Left Review.

What does mattering have to do with anything?

I said that if the unrecorded questioner/commenter/ranter had something that was truly undeserving of a verbal smackdown, there are numerous media sources that would have gleefully reported it.  The fact that no one has demonstrates that the questioners were being dickheads.

I don't bet. But why just focus on Presidential candidates (incidentally the most prominent recent heckle, 'you lie!' aside, was 'iron my shirt'). And surely what matters is the message of the heckler not the victim?

The presidential race is easier to keep track of than umpteen House and Senate campaigns.

Whether the message matters or not is a question I'm happy to discuss with you after you have conceded that heckling is a province of the left.

Most of these were originally on his YouTube channel - if you go to the original articles about them the links take you to his account but they're not all there anymore.

But that's not the accusation I was responding to: that Christie was responsible for titling videos with "Christie tears douchebag a new asshole," or "Christie publicly castrates a retard."

[Sheilbh]

I said that if the unrecorded questioner/commenter/ranter had something that was truly undeserving of a verbal smackdown, there are numerous media sources that would have gleefully reported it.  The fact that no one has demonstrates that the questioners were being dickheads.

We can't hear. On the videos the audio is from the mic so we don't hear what they're saying. The teacher's reaction is hardly outstandingly rude or heckling, but we can see that on the video. Also at the event with a reporter we have the 'look at me' line, which I find most unpleasant.

But as I say for me I don't like the artifice of it. If he genuinely does get riled by anyone showing him disrespect that's one thing, but I think it's calculated which is worse. He doesn't accidentally get into these fights, he looks for them.

Whether the message matters or not is a question I'm happy to discuss with you after you have conceded that heckling is a province of the left.

So Rubio's recent anti-immigration hecklers (several men and women shouting 'no amnesty' and 'secure the border' interrupting his speech several times) are of the left?

But that's not the accusation I was responding to: that Christie was responsible for titling videos with "Christie tears douchebag a new asshole," or "Christie publicly castrates a retard."

Oh okay. You should have made that clear because the point I was making was that that's Christie's schtick.

As an aside though you think the naming's the worst bit of that?

Edit: Finally voted - think he's a bully. I think that he seems to be looking for conflict is key. Whether the other people are sympathetic or not matters less if he's out to smack them down regardless.