Chris Christie's Bullying, Revisited

[grumbler]

But that's not the accusation I was responding to: that Christie was responsible for titling videos with "Christie tears douchebag a new asshole," or "Christie publicly castrates a retard."

I missed seeing those.   

They sound great.  So great, in fact, that I would think they were strawman titles, if I didn't know you would never stoop so low.

[Admiral Yi]

But as I say for me I don't like the artifice of it. If he genuinely does get riled by anyone showing him disrespect that's one thing, but I think it's calculated which is worse. He doesn't accidentally get into these fights, he looks for them.

If by looking for them you mean he stages town hall type events, then yeah.  I don't know a US office holder that doesn't. 

So Rubio's recent anti-immigration hecklers (several men and women shouting 'no amnesty' and 'secure the border' interrupting his speech several times) are of the left?

I could keep typing "generally," "disproportionately," or "a preponderance" every time, but I was hoping to save myself the effort.

Oh okay. You should have made that clear because the point I was making was that that's Christie's schtick.

My bad.  I was kind of stoned when I responded.

As an aside though you think the naming's the worst bit of that?

I think the naming is the only bad part of it.  As I've said before people who act like dickheads in public theater *should* get smacked down.

[Sheilbh]

If by looking for them you mean he stages town hall type events, then yeah.  I don't know a US office holder that doesn't. 

Did you read the two bits I quoted?

I could keep typing "generally," "disproportionately," or "a preponderance" every time, but I was hoping to save myself the effort.

But that's why the message matters rather than the politician.

I think the naming is the only bad part of it.  As I've said before people who act like dickheads in public theater *should* get smacked down.

Okay. Then we disagree. I think it is the behaviour of a bully. I've no issue with John Prescott punching someone because he egged him. I'd have a problem if John Prescott travelled round the country challenging people to egg him so he could fight them, film it, edit it and add it to his burgeoning 'TwoJabs' YouTube channel.

Edit: Also just searching for recent hecklers I think the one who called Elizabeth Warren a 'socialist whore' is probably winning

[Admiral Yi]

Did you read the two bits I quoted?

Yes.  They are about Christie's staff filming his public appearances and posting them on Youtube.  I don't understand how you get from there to "looking for fights."

But that's why the message matters rather than the politician.

You've lost me.

Okay. Then we disagree. I think it is the behaviour of a bully. I've no issue with John Prescott punching someone because he egged him. I'd have a problem if John Prescott travelled round the country challenging people to egg him so he could fight them, film it, edit it and add it to his burgeoning 'TwoJabs' YouTube channel.

See above.  I don't see any evidence of Christie challenging people to egg him.

[Sheilbh]

Yes.  They are about Christie's staff filming his public appearances and posting them on Youtube.  I don't understand how you get from there to "looking for fights."

Okay then I think you're naive and giving Christie way, way too much benefit of the doubt and regular people filmed by his staff without mics far too little.

I think at best one of these was accidental and since then it's been a part of his media strategy. I've no doubt if he runs for President he'll do the same to some inane Tea Party questioner and be cheered for it too, including by people who call him a bully now. For some people his John McCain without the manners schtick is appealing personally I think it's inappropriate in a politician.

The other interesting thing about it is how often we've talked about Christie's style - especially in these videos - and how rarely we've talked about the content.

You've lost me.

He's a right wing politician being heckled by the right.

[Admiral Yi]

Okay then I think you're naive and giving Christie way, way too much benefit of the doubt and regular people filmed by his staff without mics far too little.

This is remarkably content-free for a Shelf post.

I think at best one of these was accidental and since then it's been a part of his media strategy. I've no doubt if he runs for President he'll do the same to some inane Tea Party questioner and be cheered for it too, including by people who call him a bully now. For some people his John McCain without the manners schtick is appealing personally I think it's inappropriate in a politician.

What's been part of his media strategy?  Planting phony ranters in town halls?  Dosing attendees at his events with drugs that induce ranting?

He holds town halls and Q&A sessions.  Everyone does.  Some people do staged town halls in which all the attendees are guaranteed to be sympathetic to the principal.  Is holding non-staged events in which whackos can ask question "looking or a fight" in your mind?

He's a right wing politician being heckled by the right.

Of yes, of course.  Agreed.

[Sheilbh]

He holds town halls and Q&A sessions.  Everyone does.  Some people do staged town halls in which all the attendees are guaranteed to be sympathetic to the principal.  Is holding non-staged events in which whackos can ask question "looking or a fight" in your mind?

Again you're assuming they're whackos and rude which isn't an assumption I can think you can make when the sound is what's picked up on the mics. We don't know what they're saying. What do you think that woman could have done for Christie to say 'look at me'?

Regardless Christie's a grown man who can choose how he responds to that. Elizabeth Warren's response to being called a 'socialist whore' was to say something along the lines of 'we're here to do work and as you can see we've got a lot more to do'. She later said she felt sorry for the guy because he'd apparently been unemployed for 18 months, was in a tough situation and wanted to shout and call her names to feel better.

Christie's got his schtick and plays to it, "For those of you who have seen some of my appearances on YouTube," he cautioned, peeling off his suit jacket as he spoke, "this is when it normally happens." Then, recognizing the man who was first in line at the microphone, Christie began to grin. "This could happen right here, ladies and gentlemen! This guy at times has the tendency to annoy me ... Get ready! If you have your own cameras, start rolling!"

And of course if they are being rude, where could they have got the idea that the way you debate is through verbal smackdowns? It reminds me of Christopher Hitchens. He was a great writer and a great speaker, but I think his worst legacy are the pub bore imitations.

[Admiral Yi]

That post had a lot of interesting things in it, but none, as far as I can tell, concerned the question of "looking for a fight."

[Sheilbh]

As I say I think you give him a lot of doubt - but that's no doubt a function of your politics

He wants to film the moments. He creates them at any given provocation. He basically says at the events 'roll on up'. Short of solely addressing Occupy Trenton, I can't think what more he could do.

[Admiral Yi]

As I say I think you give him a lot of doubt - but that's no doubt a function of your politics

I could say the mirror image to you, but what would be the point?

He wants to film the moments. He creates them at any given provocation. He basically says at the events 'roll on up'. Short of solely addressing Occupy Trenton, I can't think what more he could do.

OK, I think I might understand what you mean by "looking for a fight."  You mean he's happy to respond to a provocation, whereas previously I had thought you were using it in the sense of challenging someone into taking him on, baiting people.  Trying to start a fight.

I agree that he's happy responding to provocations.

[Sheilbh]

Speaking of Christie - apparently Wildstein, his appointee to the Port Authority, whom he claims to have barely known when they went to high school together, has come out and said that Christie knew all about the lane closings when they were going on (contarary to his public statements). He claims to have evidence to that effect. I guess Wildstein didn't enjoy the view from underneath the bus where he found himself,

http://gothamist.com/2014/01/31/port_authority_official_claims_chri.php

Christie responds:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-text-chris-christie-email-family-friends/story?id=22330561

My favourite section:

4. In David Wildstein's past, people and newspaper accounts have described him as "tumultuous" and someone who "made moves that were not productive."

• As a 16-year-old kid, he sued over a local school board election.
• He was publicly accused by his high school social studies teacher of deceptive behavior.
• He had a controversial tenure as Mayor of Livingston
• He was an anonymous blogger known as Wally Edge
• He had a strange habit of registering web addresses for other people's names without telling them
• Thomas L. Adams, Wildstein's Council Running Mate: "It Was A Tumultuous Time." (Shawn Boburg, "Ex-Blogger Is Governor Christie's Eyes, Ears Inside The Port Authority," Bergen Record, 3/3/12)
• Robert Leopold, Livingston's former Democratic Mayor: Wildstein Was "A Political Animal" Who "Frightened People." (Shawn Boburg, "Ex-Blogger Is Governor Christie's Eyes, Ears Inside The Port Authority," Bergen Record, 3/3/12)
• "He Was A Very Contentious Person." (Shawn Boburg, "Ex-Blogger Is Governor Christie's Eyes, Ears Inside The Port Authority," Bergen Record, 3/3/12)
• Wildstein Created "Culture Of Fear" Within Port Authority. "He and others referred to a 'culture of fear' within the authority, reflected in testimony from other authority officials about their reluctance to report to Mr. Foye or others what they considered an 'odd' request from Mr. Wildstein—to abruptly realign lanes that had been in place for decades and to tell no one about it." (Ted Mann, "Port Authority Chief Testifies in George Washington Bridge Flap," The Wall Street Journal, 12/9/13)

5. David Wildstein has been publicly asking for immunity since the beginning, been held in contempt by the New Jersey legislature for refusing to testify, failed to provide this so-called "evidence" when he was first subpoenaed by the NJ Legislature and is looking for the Port Authority to pay his legal bills.

• Fort Lee Mayor Mark Sokolich: "Look, from my perspective and Fort Lee's perspective, we have credibility issues with Mr. Wildstein...He is certainly bucking for immunity." (Susan K. Livio, "GWB letter raises credibility questions for Chris Christie, Port Authority official, politicians say," Star-Ledger, 2/1/14)
• Assemblyman John Wisniewski: "'I am curious (Wildstein) has documents ... he did not provide them to the committee when he was subpoenaed,' Wisniewski added." (Susan K. Livio, "GWB letter raises credibility questions for Chris Christie, Port Authority official, politicians say," Star-Ledger, 2/1/14)

Some of these are amazing - as a 16 year old David Wildstein encouraged other kids to smoke - but also, if they're a problem, why did Christie appoint him?

[Eddie Teach]

As I say I think you give him a lot of doubt - but that's no doubt a function of your politics

I could say the mirror image to you, but what would be the point?

Didn't stop him from falling for Shucksabee.

[Sheilbh]

I could say the mirror image to you, but what would be the point?

I think it'd be nonsense.

I'm not a partisan hack, despite having relatively strong views on everything - especially things I know little about. But you won't find me eulogising politicians I don't like but are on my side - say, Ed Miliband, or any other Labour frontbencher - or searching out ways to slam the ones I disagree with. In general the only thing I am partisan for is entertaining characterful politicians - Christie, Huckabee, Ken Clarke, Joe Biden, Boehner. It's the ones who are the opposite of that I hate - Romney. Them and Boris Johnson.

For what it's worth I think Christie would be the wrong way for the GOP to go, even if this whole bridge story didn't exist. I think his style wouldn't work everywhere. Also I think he's a decent establishment candidate. The GOP need to embrace the Tea Party/reformist wing, populism and attack the establishment that's lost them so many elections. I'm not sure who that candidate would be right now.I like Rand Paul and he's a very positive figure, but I also like America giving a shit about national security, so not him.

Edit: Also I'm very in favour of old politicians. Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and David Cameron are in their 40s they should be junior ministers or rising stars in the Cabinet. They shouldn't be competing for Downing Street

[Razgovory]

I could say the mirror image to you, but what would be the point?

I think it'd be nonsense.

I'm not a partisan hack, despite having relatively strong views on everything - especially things I know little about. But you won't find me eulogising politicians I don't like but are on my side - say, Ed Miliband, or any other Labour frontbencher - or searching out ways to slam the ones I disagree with. In general the only thing I am partisan for is entertaining characterful politicians - Christie, Huckabee, Ken Clarke, Joe Biden, Boehner. It's the ones who are the opposite of that I hate - Romney. Them and Boris Johnson.

For what it's worth I think Christie would be the wrong way for the GOP to go, even if this whole bridge story didn't exist. I think his style wouldn't work everywhere. Also I think he's a decent establishment candidate. The GOP need to embrace the Tea Party/reformist wing, populism and attack the establishment that's lost them so many elections. I'm not sure who that candidate would be right now.I like Rand Paul and he's a very positive figure, but I also like America giving a shit about national security, so not him.

Edit: Also I'm very in favour of old politicians. Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and David Cameron are in their 40s they should be junior ministers or rising stars in the Cabinet. They shouldn't be competing for Downing Street

What's wrong Them?

[DGuller]

Some of these are amazing - as a 16 year old David Wildstein encouraged other kids to smoke - but also, if they're a problem, why did Christie appoint him?

Looks like Christie doubled down on his "I didn't know him in high school, I was a jock, I didn't hang around with dorks" defense.  It would be just desserts if that was the move that seals his political fate.