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Baseball 2014

Started by The Minsky Moment, January 09, 2014, 04:47:49 PM

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sbr

Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: sbr on January 09, 2014, 05:24:17 PM
I love dan LeBetard for his stunt with deadspin. 

I am still happy Biggio didn't get in.
Why?

More than 3000 hits, 5th in doubles all time and a solid defensive player. He's definitely worthy.

I was pretty sure I made a long numbers heavy post here last year about Biggio and the HoF but I can't find it now, maybe it was somewhere else.  Either way I don't have the energy to do it again now.

The only case that can be made for Biggio is his numbers.  I am not a big numbers guy; especially when it comes to HoF players.  You should not have to look at baseball-reference to see if a guy is a Hall of Famer, you should just know.

In 20 seasons Biggio made 7 All Star games; won 4 Gold Gloves; 5 Silver Sluggers.  In 20 seasons he finished in the top 20 (TOP 20!!) of the NL MVP voting 5 times; Top 10 3 times and never finished higher than 4th (16 in 1994; 10 in 1995; 4 in 1997; 5 in 1998; 12 in 1999).  To me those number say a lot more about his Hall of Fame worthyness than accumulating 3000 hits in 2800 games.

Biggio stayed healthy and played in a lot of games (16th all time) and amassed a lot of numbers, but I am looking for more in a Hall of Famer.  In my personal Hall of Fame Biggio is barely a borderline guy, but Curt Schilling is a unanimous first ballot slam dunk.

Someone try and tell the story of Major League Baseball since 1988 without mentioning Curt Schilling, it is impossible.  Now do the same without mentioning Craig Biggio.  What do you miss out on?  A few decent teams with above average offenses in a hitter's ballpark?

fhdz

Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 09, 2014, 07:22:27 PM
:lol:

A Languish drinking game would be an absolute exercise in who could arrive at the emergency room first.
and the horse you rode in on

alfred russel

I kind of want to go to Cooperstown to see the plaques for Glavine, Maddux, and Cox. These are the first guys that I grew up watching (on the team I was following) to get in. I figure that will make me feel a bit old. I remember being a kid and trading away Glavine's rookie card after he got lit up one night because I concluded he sucked.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Ed Anger

Hopefully, Bobby Cox's photo is of him picking his nose. Since that was what he was always doing when the camera cut to him.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

alfred russel

Quote from: Ed Anger on January 09, 2014, 09:25:15 PM
Hopefully, Bobby Cox's photo is of him picking his nose. Since that was what he was always doing when the camera cut to him.

I think he also broke the record for the most times getting thrown out of games. Boogers and ejections are awesome, but I think Jim Leyland smoking in the dugout was better.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

jimmy olsen

Quote from: sbr on January 09, 2014, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 09, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: sbr on January 09, 2014, 05:24:17 PM
I love dan LeBetard for his stunt with deadspin. 

I am still happy Biggio didn't get in.
Why?

More than 3000 hits, 5th in doubles all time and a solid defensive player. He's definitely worthy.

I was pretty sure I made a long numbers heavy post here last year about Biggio and the HoF but I can't find it now, maybe it was somewhere else.  Either way I don't have the energy to do it again now.

The only case that can be made for Biggio is his numbers.  I am not a big numbers guy; especially when it comes to HoF players.  You should not have to look at baseball-reference to see if a guy is a Hall of Famer, you should just know.

In 20 seasons Biggio made 7 All Star games; won 4 Gold Gloves; 5 Silver Sluggers.  In 20 seasons he finished in the top 20 (TOP 20!!) of the NL MVP voting 5 times; Top 10 3 times and never finished higher than 4th (16 in 1994; 10 in 1995; 4 in 1997; 5 in 1998; 12 in 1999).  To me those number say a lot more about his Hall of Fame worthyness than accumulating 3000 hits in 2800 games.

Biggio stayed healthy and played in a lot of games (16th all time) and amassed a lot of numbers, but I am looking for more in a Hall of Famer.  In my personal Hall of Fame Biggio is barely a borderline guy, but Curt Schilling is a unanimous first ballot slam dunk.

Someone try and tell the story of Major League Baseball since 1988 without mentioning Curt Schilling, it is impossible.  Now do the same without mentioning Craig Biggio.  What do you miss out on?  A few decent teams with above average offenses in a hitter's ballpark?
Baseball is all about the numbers. Biggio is the only player in history with at least 3,000 hits, 600 doubles, 400 stolen bases and 250 home runs. I would vote for him on the first ballot, no question.

You can't tell the story of baseball since '98 without mentioning Schilling because he was on great teams. You shouldn't get bonus points for that. His stats are good enough to get in, but they're not first ballot good.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

The Minsky Moment

The best case for Biggio is not IMO the counting totals b/c he reached those milestones in part by playing 2 extra years when he had no business playing anymore, much less as a regular.  The better case I think is that he was a player that really did everything well.  And I mean everything,  there was one year he had over 700 plate appearances and didn't ground into a double play.   Zero.  It's pretty amazing if you think about it.  The same year he got hit of pitches 36 times.  Only two players since the 19th century ever had more.  Biggio is the career leader in HBP after one 19th century guy.

Overall I think he is kind of borderline for me but I would be happy to see him make the cut
BUT
I don't see how he gets votes and yet Trammel does not.  Trammell hit about as well but was a better defender playing a more demanding position.  Really it shows that the voters are being overly influenced by round career numbers.  Trammell had injury problems late career and couldn't stick around till his 40s padding out hit numbers.  That shouldn't hurt his Hall credentials.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

alfred russel

Did anyone else see the 60 minutes story on Alex Rodriguez? Man that guy seems to have pissed off the commissioner's office.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

sbr


sbr

Just had my first fantasy draft of the year.  Picked 7th out of 10.  Normal 5x5 Head-to-Head.  The 7th pick was terrible this year, the top tier ends at 5 imo.  I ended up going with too many high risk/high reward guys and there is not nearly enough speed here.

C Y Molina
1B C Davis
2B B Zobrist
3B K Seager
SS B Miller (Sea)
2B/SS J Gyorko
1B/3B A Pujols
OF R Braun
OF Y Puig
OF J Upton
OF D Brown
OF N Aoki
UTIL M Texiera

P G Gonzalez
P J Zimmerman
P T Rosenthal
P J Teheran
P M Wacha
P J Grilli
P D Robertson
P S Chisek
P Y Gallardo

B C Archer
B T Lincecum
B D Gee

Ed Anger

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

dps

Quote from: sbr on March 17, 2014, 09:45:25 PM
Just had my first fantasy draft of the year.  Picked 7th out of 10.  Normal 5x5 Head-to-Head.  The 7th pick was terrible this year, the top tier ends at 5 imo.  I ended up going with too many high risk/high reward guys and there is not nearly enough speed here.

C Y Molina
1B C Davis
2B B Zobrist
3B K Seager
SS B Miller (Sea)
2B/SS J Gyorko
1B/3B A Pujols
OF R Braun
OF Y Puig
OF J Upton
OF D Brown
OF N Aoki
UTIL M Texiera

P G Gonzalez
P J Zimmerman
P T Rosenthal
P J Teheran
P M Wacha
P J Grilli
P D Robertson
P S Chisek
P Y Gallardo

B C Archer
B T Lincecum
B D Gee

That sucks as a fantasy team.  Granted, it would suck even more as a real lineup, but sheesh.

derspiess

Quote from: alfred russel on January 09, 2014, 09:18:28 PM
I kind of want to go to Cooperstown to see the plaques for Glavine, Maddux, and Cox. These are the first guys that I grew up watching (on the team I was following) to get in. I figure that will make me feel a bit old. I remember being a kid and trading away Glavine's rookie card after he got lit up one night because I concluded he sucked.


Everyone should visit at least once.  Shame it's so far out of the way to plan much else around it.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

Quote from: Ed Anger on March 17, 2014, 09:46:46 PM
Reds suck.

:nelson:

New manager's got a ton of personality, to boot.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall