Nelson Mandela RIP

[Tamas]

Just copying a tweet a news reporter sent, about Peter Tatchell's assessment of Mandela:

Peter Tatchell: Mandela ranks alongside Ghandi, but got it wrong on HIV, poverty + Mugabe

Gandhi got it wrong on the Nazis, industry, and rights of women.

[CountDeMoney]

The thing is, I am not sure they were serious missteps.  He had a militant period, but it seems pretty clear he was fighting injustice and tyranny.  When it came time to make peace, he not only did so, he worked hard to include even those who worked on the side of injustice.  The measure of the man is not that he might have fought when it was time to fight, but that he was willing to forgive when it was time to forgive.  South Africa is not Zimbabwe for a reason, and I think that is the legacy of Mandela.  Now let's see if others can live up to that.

It's not like he was running around McVeighing up South Africa.  But Americans have a particular disconnect when it comes to synthesizing the moral applications of violence when it comes to people who don't wear uniforms.  Violence is an option for the oppressor, never the oppressed.  Fits within their selective notions of good and evil.
It's either Gandhi or Patton for them, there's nothing in between.

[derspiess]

Seedy hates Americans.

[garbon]

The thing is, I am not sure they were serious missteps.  He had a militant period, but it seems pretty clear he was fighting injustice and tyranny.  When it came time to make peace, he not only did so, he worked hard to include even those who worked on the side of injustice.  The measure of the man is not that he might have fought when it was time to fight, but that he was willing to forgive when it was time to forgive.  South Africa is not Zimbabwe for a reason, and I think that is the legacy of Mandela.  Now let's see if others can live up to that.

It's not like he was running around McVeighing up South Africa.  But Americans have a particular disconnect when it comes to synthesizing the moral applications of violence when it comes to people who don't wear uniforms.  Violence is an option for the oppressor, never the oppressed.  Fits within their selective notions of good and evil.
It's either Gandhi or Patton for them, there's nothing in between.

Odd.

[garbon]

Seedy hates Americans.

Apparently.

[jimmy olsen]

The thing is, I am not sure they were serious missteps.  He had a militant period, but it seems pretty clear he was fighting injustice and tyranny.  When it came time to make peace, he not only did so, he worked hard to include even those who worked on the side of injustice.  The measure of the man is not that he might have fought when it was time to fight, but that he was willing to forgive when it was time to forgive.  South Africa is not Zimbabwe for a reason, and I think that is the legacy of Mandela.  Now let's see if others can live up to that.

It's not like he was running around McVeighing up South Africa.  But Americans have a particular disconnect when it comes to synthesizing the moral applications of violence when it comes to people who don't wear uniforms.  Violence is an option for the oppressor, never the oppressed.  Fits within their selective notions of good and evil.

It's either Gandhi or Patton for them, there's nothing in between.

Most of the men who fought in the Revolution didn't wear uniforms and they're still glorified.

[derspiess]

Most of the men who fought in the Revolution didn't wear uniforms and they're still glorified.

I'd say most of them wore some sort of uniform.

[The Larch]

Is it true that Mandela was still in the US terrorist watchlist until 2008?

[CountDeMoney]

Is it true that Mandela was still in the US terrorist watchlist until 2008?

We don't like black people who use violence against oppression.  Makes them all uppity and hatnot.  We prefer them to go to church and bitch about it there instead.

[garbon]

Careful, dear. You are becoming as one note as Marti.

[derspiess]

I wonder if Seedy's mom is washing his dashikis now that he's back at home

[CountDeMoney]

Not my problem political violence is a foreign concept to Americans.  Lucky for us, though.

[garbon]

I wonder if Seedy's mom is washing his dashikis now that he's back at home

I haven't worn mine in forever.

[derspiess]

Was it a Kwanzaa present from your aunt?  She still off the Kwanzaa? 

[crazy canuck]

The thing is, I am not sure they were serious missteps.  He had a militant period, but it seems pretty clear he was fighting injustice and tyranny.  When it came time to make peace, he not only did so, he worked hard to include even those who worked on the side of injustice.  The measure of the man is not that he might have fought when it was time to fight, but that he was willing to forgive when it was time to forgive.  South Africa is not Zimbabwe for a reason, and I think that is the legacy of Mandela.  Now let's see if others can live up to that.

Well said