Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Tamas]

It ultimately didn't work in 1945-1989, and then at least they had a coherent ideology that had appeal to certain numbers of people.

On the other hand I'd argue Putinism/managed democracy could be the first serious ideological challenger to Western liberal market democracy since the Cold War.

If it is, it is for the EXACT same reason why the Soviet Union was for a while: because ignorant people west of Russia are willing to believe the lies fed to the Russian citizens about just how utterly awesome living in Russia is.

It was dangerous stupidity then, and it is dangerous stupidity now.

[Tamas]

I am reading that American intelligence services report that the Russians have built up a supply chain to and field hospitals near the Ukrainian border. An invasion might be imminent.

[Syt]

Source?


Also, why would they need field hospitals? Everyone who gets wounded obviously is a traitor and tries to sabotage the Putinist State.

[Tamas]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/08/exclusive-u-s-won-t-share-invasion-intel-with-ukraine.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=exclusive_breaking_news&cid=newsletter%3Bemail%3Bexclusive_breaking_news&utm_term=Breaking%20News%20and%20Exclusives

[celedhring]

Let's not forget that it's the job of any military to prepare for whatever conflict could be fought in the near future, even if it doesn't want to fight it.

The Eastern Part of the Ukraine isn't Crimea, for starters all the pro-Russian agitators have been ousted quite easily since day 1, while the Ukrainian government was powerless in Crimea from the start.

[Syt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26953113

Ukraine in 48-hour ultimatum to east's pro-Russia activists

Ukraine's interior minister has warned pro-Russian activists who have taken over state buildings in eastern cities to enter talks to find a political solution or face "force".

Arsen Avakov said the situation would "be resolved in 48 hours" either way.

Earlier, a number of people held inside a state security building in Luhansk since Sunday were freed.

The EU, Russia, US and Ukraine are to meet next week in the first four-way meeting since the crisis erupted.

The talks are aimed at breaking the impasse since Russia annexed the southern Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea in February. Russian troops are now massed along the borders of the two countries.
'Forceful answer'

Mr Avakov said an "anti-terrorist operation" was under way in the regions of Luhansk, Donetsk and Kharkiv and would be concluded within the next two days.

"There are two options," he told journalists, "political and negotiations - and force."For those who want dialogue, we propose talks and a political solution. For the minority who want conflict they will get a forceful answer from the Ukrainian authorities."

Shortly before he spoke, Ukraine's security service said 56 people held inside its Luhansk offices had been allowed to leave following two rounds of negotiations with local politicians.

On Tuesday, it said "radicals" were armed and holding 60 people against their will. It is not clear exactly how many people remain in the building.

During a rally outside the building overnight, speakers condemned the interim leadership in Kiev and repeated their call for a referendum on whether to seek greater regional autonomy, the Associated Press reports.

Ukraine's authorities said on Tuesday they had retaken control of the government building in Kharkiv, but protesters remain in control of the regional authority building in Donetsk.

Barricades of barbed wire, tyres and even car bumpers surround the buildings.

Moscow has warned Ukraine that using force to end the protests could lead to civil war.

On Wednesday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel criticised Russia for not doing enough to ease the tension.

She told parliament: "Unfortunately, in many areas it is not clear that Russia is contributing to a de-escalation of the situation."
'Genuine dialogue'

US Secretary of State John Kerry said Russian special forces and agents had been "the catalyst behind the chaos of the last 24 hours".

He said the events "could potentially be a contrived pretext for military intervention just as we saw in Crimea".

Russia's President Vladimir Putin says there is no intention to invade Ukraine but he reserves the right to protect Russian interests there.

But he said Russia would "engage in a genuine dialogue with the Ukrainian authorities".

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov will meet Mr Kerry, EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and Ukraine's Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsia next week.

Kiev and its allies accuse Moscow of fomenting unrest in the mainly Russian-speaking east of the country as a pretext to possibly seizing more territory - a claim strongly refuted by Russia.

On Wednesday, Moscow again denied any intent behind its forces along the Ukraine border.

"The United States and Ukraine have no reason to be worried," the foreign ministry said in a statement.

"Russia has stated many times that it is not carrying out any unusual or unplanned activity on its territory near the border with Ukraine that would be of military significance."

Moscow has so far refused to recognise the new authorities in Kiev following the ousting of pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in February.

[Queequeg]

Well, war it is then.

[Razgovory]

I am reading that American intelligence services report that the Russians have built up a supply chain to and field hospitals near the Ukrainian border. An invasion might be imminent.

Yeah, they've been sitting there for quite some time.  It seems they are trying to gin up a rebellion in Eastern Ukraine and then ride to the rescue when the Ukrainians put it down.

[Razgovory]

Damn, you guys post a bunch of new stuff while I was typing.

[Malthus]

On the other hand I'd argue Putinism/managed democracy could be the first serious ideological challenger to Western liberal market democracy since the Cold War.

The only reasons why anyone pays attention to Russia are ample fossil fuel reserves.

And leftover Cold War nukes. Let's not forget those.

Putinism is hardly an "ideological" challenge to the West, as it has zero attractions to anyone other than as a foil to those who actively hate the West and all its works. No-one outside of Russia itself (and wannabe Russians) is likely to be attracted to it on its own merits.

[Ed Anger]

About 3 days ago, I re-activated war plan Boner.

[derspiess]

Source?

I heard that a few days ago as well, FWIW.

[Legbiter]

Well, war it is then.

I think so too. The Russian media is utterly hysterical.

[PDH]

Time to just withdraw all American troops from around the world (except MacArthur's boys in the Philippines) and go full isolationist.

[derspiess]

Time to just withdraw all American troops from around the world (except MacArthur's boys in the Philippines) and go full isolationist.

We will: profit.