Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Valmy]

Traditional European Values being 1849 and 1956?  Talk about double standards, look what Russia can do and STILL be Hungary's big hero.

[Razgovory]

I just had a hideous thought.  Could Russia become the dominate power in Europe through exploiting European democracies?  Could they bring to power pro-Russian parties through bribery, astroturfing, and other dirty tricks?

[The Brain]

I just had a hideous thought.  Could Russia become the dominate power in Europe through exploiting European democracies?  Could they bring to power pro-Russian parties through bribery, astroturfing, and other dirty tricks?

No. Yes.

[PJL]

I just had a hideous thought.  Could Russia become the dominate power in Europe through exploiting European democracies?  Could they bring to power pro-Russian parties through bribery, astroturfing, and other dirty tricks?

They sort of tried that during the cold war with all the Communist parties. Didn't have much success though.

[Barrister]

I just had a hideous thought.  Could Russia become the dominate power in Europe through exploiting European democracies?  Could they bring to power pro-Russian parties through bribery, astroturfing, and other dirty tricks?

It ultimately didn't work in 1945-1989, and then at least they had a coherent ideology that had appeal to certain numbers of people.

Now they're trying the same strategy, but their ideology is a weird form of nationalism, social conservatism and economic clientelism.

[Valmy]

Russian Nationalism may play well to Hungarians but I think most Europeans regard it as less than an ideal model for their own society.

[The Brain]

I just had a hideous thought.  Could Russia become the dominate power in Europe through exploiting European democracies?  Could they bring to power pro-Russian parties through bribery, astroturfing, and other dirty tricks?

They sort of tried that during the cold war with all the Communist parties. Didn't have much success though.

They managed to keep Communism mainstream in non-Soviet Europe. Sweden supported all kinds of weird Communist countries. They did have decent success I reckon.

[PJL]

I just had a hideous thought.  Could Russia become the dominate power in Europe through exploiting European democracies?  Could they bring to power pro-Russian parties through bribery, astroturfing, and other dirty tricks?

It ultimately didn't work in 1945-1989, and then at least they had a coherent ideology that had appeal to certain numbers of people.

Now they're trying the same strategy, but their ideology is a weird form of nationalism, social conservatism and economic clientelism.

There's a word for that sort of weird mix, it's called fascism.

[Razgovory]

I just had a hideous thought.  Could Russia become the dominate power in Europe through exploiting European democracies?  Could they bring to power pro-Russian parties through bribery, astroturfing, and other dirty tricks?

It ultimately didn't work in 1945-1989, and then at least they had a coherent ideology that had appeal to certain numbers of people.

Now they're trying the same strategy, but their ideology is a weird form of nationalism, social conservatism and economic clientelism.

This is true, but the lack of coherent ideology might help.  Money doesn't know the difference between right and left.  The Russians are also now much more integrated in Europe then the Soviets ever were as well.

[Sheilbh]

It ultimately didn't work in 1945-1989, and then at least they had a coherent ideology that had appeal to certain numbers of people.

On the other hand I'd argue Putinism/managed democracy could be the first serious ideological challenger to Western liberal market democracy since the Cold War.

[Queequeg]

It ultimately didn't work in 1945-1989, and then at least they had a coherent ideology that had appeal to certain numbers of people.

On the other hand I'd argue Putinism/managed democracy could be the first serious ideological challenger to Western liberal market democracy since the Cold War.

Also, for all of Communism's idealogical appeal, its economic policies and inability to fully function within a parliamentary or democratic society more or less doomed it from the get-go.

[alfred russel]

On the other hand I'd argue Putinism/managed democracy could be the first serious ideological challenger to Western liberal market democracy since the Cold War.

The problem with that is that Russia sort of sucks. It really isn't attractive in any way. It is not wealthy. It has a crappy birthrate. People don't live very long. People are leaving. Culturally, it has been sort of a wasteland for a century. It doesn't even have that many people or that strong of a military to be a world power.

[Iormlund]

On the other hand I'd argue Putinism/managed democracy could be the first serious ideological challenger to Western liberal market democracy since the Cold War.

The only reasons why anyone pays attention to Russia are ample fossil fuel reserves.

[Syt]

Well, they keep the "Fuck AmeriKKKa and their EU lapdogs" crowd somewhat happy.

[celedhring]

Well, they keep the "Fuck AmeriKKKa and their EU lapdogs" crowd somewhat happy.

Indeed, there's always a guaranteed degree of support for whoever takes that mantle. Hardly a feat of political geostrategy.