Ukraine's European Revolution?

[grumbler]

I wonder if countries sometimes underpower their invasion forces because they don't consider the needs of security operations once the country is occupied?   

What need do they have for security forces?  They wll be greeted with flowers.  That's an unknown known.

[alfred russel]

I wonder if countries sometimes underpower their invasion forces because they don't consider the needs of security operations once the country is occupied?   

What need do they have for security forces?  They wll be greeted with flowers.  That's an unknown known.

The US makes a horrible mistake in fighting a war. A bit over a decade later, Putin is poised to make a similar mistake, only which will likely have much more severe consequences for his country.

I'm very worried about this. Any doubts that Putin is trying to go back to Soviet politics are being erased. 

[Tamas]

I wonder if countries sometimes underpower their invasion forces because they don't consider the needs of security operations once the country is occupied?   

What need do they have for security forces?  They wll be greeted with flowers.  That's an unknown known.

The US makes a horrible mistake in fighting a war. A bit over a decade later, Putin is poised to make a similar mistake, only which will likely have much more severe consequences for his country.

I'm very worried about this. Any doubts that Putin is trying to go back to Soviet politics are being erased. 

Yeah but that is the thing: you cannot just go back. He is putting the whole world at risk to prove he can still get it up.

[Syt]

The separatists make no signs of leaving the buildings. Is the Ukrainian government going to blink? They've committed to using force to clear the places tomorrow, if there's no other solution; at the same time this might be exactly what Putin is waiting for. A bloody mess that he can pin on the fascists in Kiev.

[Razgovory]

Possibly just some political grandstanding by a bunch of back benchers. Hopefully.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/727175

Group of lawmakers demands to try Mikhail Gorbachev for complicity in USSR breakup

Gorbachev is accused of creating the USSR State Council that adopted orders on recognizing the independence of Baltic Soviet republics

MOSCOW, April 10. /ITAR-TASS/. A group of State Duma members from different political factions has prepared a request addressed to Russia's Prosecutor General Yuri Chaika. The lawmakers demand to conduct a prosecutor's investigation into the events that took place in the period of USSR breakup.

The parliamentarians expect that over the request and the following investigation, criminal cases would be filed, in particular, against the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, the Izvestia newspaper reports on Thursday.

In their request, the deputies note that Soviet citizens voted at a referendum for keeping the state's integrity, but top Soviet leadership committed illegal actions, which led to the country's breakup. The initiators of the investigation recall that November 4, 1991, the directorate for supervision over the execution of law on state security under the USSR Prosecutor's General Office filed a case against USSR President Mikhail Gorbachev. However, on the next day, the Prosecutor's Office under pressure of the last Soviet leader cancelled the order on institution of criminal proceedings.

Gorbachev is accused of creating the USSR State Council and chairing this institution, which was not stipulated by the Soviet Constitution as a government authority. It was the State Council that adopted orders on recognizing the independence of Baltic Soviet republics, although such decisions could not be made even by legitimate authorities.

Among the initiators of the request are United Russia deputies Yevgeny Fyodorov and Anton Romanov, members of the Communist Party (KPRF) Igan Nikitchuk and Oleg Denisenko, as well as representative of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR) faction Mikhail Degtyaryov.

"It's very important to do this, since until today there were no legal estimates given to the fact of breaking up a state," Degtyaryov noted. "Even today, we are facing the consequences of developments of 1991. People in Kiev are dying and will be dying further due to the fault of those, who made the decision to destroy the country in the Kremlin many years ago."

The lawmakers also noted in their request that such crimes did not have a term of limitation, and Gorbachev himself currently does not have any immunity that would prevent criminal prosecution.

Stupidity has a tendency to snowball and gain a momentum all its own.

[Tamas]

The separatists make no signs of leaving the buildings. Is the Ukrainian government going to blink? They've committed to using force to clear the places tomorrow, if there's no other solution; at the same time this might be exactly what Putin is waiting for. A bloody mess that he can pin on the fascists in Kiev.

I think the Ukrainians are out of options. You don't really have a functioning government, or state, if some fringe groups can just wrestle control over a city by occupying administration buildings. They are damned either way, and I imagine they cannot just do the passive resistance thing like in Crimea and then accept the referendum results like there, AND stay in power. I think Putin has raised the stakes too much and the Ukrainians must simply call it at this stage, and see if he was bluffing.

[Ed Anger]

If I was Gorby, I'd be getting myself to Texas. Him and Poppa Bush can run around on scooters.

[Barrister]

The separatists make no signs of leaving the buildings. Is the Ukrainian government going to blink? They've committed to using force to clear the places tomorrow, if there's no other solution; at the same time this might be exactly what Putin is waiting for. A bloody mess that he can pin on the fascists in Kiev.

I think the Ukrainians are out of options. You don't really have a functioning government, or state, if some fringe groups can just wrestle control over a city by occupying administration buildings. They are damned either way, and I imagine they cannot just do the passive resistance thing like in Crimea and then accept the referendum results like there, AND stay in power. I think Putin has raised the stakes too much and the Ukrainians must simply call it at this stage, and see if he was bluffing.

Meh.  Of course they have options.  "Starve them out" sounds like a good one in this case.

[derspiess]

I think the Ukrainians are out of options. You don't really have a functioning government, or state, if some fringe groups can just wrestle control over a city by occupying administration buildings. They are damned either way, and I imagine they cannot just do the passive resistance thing like in Crimea and then accept the referendum results like there, AND stay in power. I think Putin has raised the stakes too much and the Ukrainians must simply call it at this stage, and see if he was bluffing.

Yeah, they have to act.  Problem is, it sounds like a lot of Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the East are on the fence or mildly supportive of remaining part of Ukraine.  Seeing western Ukrainian troops swarming their towns might push them into Putin's warm, loving embrace.

I wish it weren't so, but it's becoming even more apparent that Ukraine in its current form is ungovernable. 

[derspiess]

Stupidity has a tendency to snowball and gain a momentum all its own.

I'm surprised he still lives in Russia, given how so many Russians hate his guts.

[Tamas]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26975204

Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned European leaders that Ukraine's delays in paying for Russian gas have created a "critical situation".

Pipelines transiting Ukraine deliver Russian gas to several EU countries and there are fears that the current tensions could trigger gas shortages.

Armed pro-Russian separatists are holed up in official buildings in Donetsk and Luhansk, in eastern Ukraine.

Meanwhile, a European human rights body has stripped Russia of voting rights.

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) monitors human rights in 47 member states, including Russia and Ukraine.

Protesting against Russia's annexation of Crimea last month, PACE suspended Russia's voting rights as well as Russian participation in election observer missions.

The Russian delegation had boycotted the meeting. Its leader, Alexei Pushkov, described the proceedings as a "farce".

The BBC's Chris Morris in Brussels says Moscow may well brush off this diplomatic snub, but it is another sign of the price it is having to pay for its annexation of Crimea.

Pro-Russian protesters in Donetsk. 10 April 2014 Activists inside the Donetsk government building have proclaimed a "Donetsk Republic"
Russian state gas giant Gazprom says Ukraine's debt for supplies of Russian gas has risen above $2bn (£1.2bn; 1.4bn euros).

Gazprom said on Wednesday it could demand advance payments from Kiev for gas but President Putin said the company should hold off, pending talks with "our partners" - widely believed to mean the EU.

In a letter to European leaders, President Putin warned that the "critical" situation could affect deliveries of gas to Europe, his spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.

The letter, later released by the Kremlin, says that if Ukraine does not settle its energy bill, Gazprom will be "compelled" to switch over to advance payment, and if those payments are not made, it "will completely or partially cease gas deliveries".

Mr Putin added that Russia was "prepared to participate in the effort to stabilise and restore Ukraine's economy" but only on "equal terms" with the EU.

Nearly one-third of the EU's natural gas comes from Russia.

Previous Russian gas disputes with Ukraine have led to severe gas shortages in several EU countries. The EU says it has extra gas supplies and reverse-flow technology to deal with any such disruption now.

BBC map of cities in eastern Ukraine
In Kiev, the authorities said Ukraine would not prosecute pro-Russian activists occupying official buildings in Donetsk and Luhansk if they surrendered their weapons.

Ukraine has accused Russia of stirring up the unrest, a claim Moscow denies.

Nato says up to 40,000 Russian troops are massed near Ukraine's border.

Ukraine fears that the Russian separatist actions are a provocation similar to the protests that gripped Crimea days before Russian troops annexed the peninsula last month.

The separatists in the east - a mainly Russian-speaking region with close ties to Russia - are demanding referendums on self-rule. In Donetsk they have declared a "people's republic".

Russia, the US, Ukraine and the EU are to hold talks in Geneva next Thursday to try to resolve the impasse, EU diplomats have said.

They will be the first four-way talks since the crisis began.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told US Secretary of State John Kerry by telephone on Wednesday that the meeting should focus on fostering dialogue among Ukrainians and not on bilateral relations among the participants.

In another development, President Putin sacked 14 generals, Russian media report.

It was not immediately clear if the move was a routine step. Russia has some 800 generals in its army alone.

[Solmyr]

Meanwhile, a European human rights body has stripped Russia of voting rights.

That'll show 'em.

[Syt]

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/727358

Russians abroad face increased risk of detention or arrest at US request

Russia  April 10, 22:50 UTC+4

MOSCOW, April 10, /ITAR-TASS/. Russian citizens are facing an increased risk of being detained or arrested in third countries at the request of the U.S. authorities, the Foreign Ministry said on Thursday, April 10.

"This risk has increased immensely lately following the anti-Russian sanctions imposed by the United States," the ministry said.

"The U.S. administration, which refuses without valid reason to recognise the reunification of Crimea with Russia, which is fully in line with international law and the U.N. Charter, is trying to make the 'hunt' for Russian citizens in third countries for their further extradition and conviction in the U.S., under doubtful charges as a rule, a routine practice," the ministry said.

"America ignores the bilateral agreement of 1999 on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters and does not bother to inform the Russian authorities about the charges brought against our fellow citizens and in many cases does not even notify Russian consular missions of their detention," the ministry said.

Russian embassies and consulates general do their best to "bring home the Russian citizens in trouble by providing all the necessary consular and legal assistance to them", the ministry said. "However, one should remember that 'justice, American style' is biased against Russian citizens and the trials of those who have been abducted and taken to the United States usually end with guilty verdicts and long prison terms as was the case with Viktor Bout and Konstantin Yaroshenko," the ministry said.

Given that, "we strongly advise the citizens of Russia to refrain from foreign trips, especially to the countries which have signed extradition agreements with the United States (the list of these countries is available on the U.S. State Department's website), if there are suspicions that American law enforcement agencies can bring any charges against them", the ministry said.

[Valmy]

I know this is a propaganda piece but I am amused their examples of our recent crackdown on Russians are cases from a few years ago.

[mongers]

So has peace and brotherly love broken out yet ?