Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Admiral Yi]

Colorado is landlocked.  The bad guys parachuted in.

[celedhring]

I wonder how many countries they could conquer using these techniques.

Brooklyn.

[mongers]

Colorado is landlocked.  The bad guys parachuted in.

Has to be a militia group there, now including plans for fighting off Putin's spetsnaz legions.

[Syt]

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Red_dawn_1984_movie_start_of_ww3.PNG

Map of fictional events in 1984 movie Red Dawn, at the start of World War III

Blue = US and allies (United Kingdom, China "600 million screaming Chinamen", presumably Unoccupied Canada)
Green = Neutral (Europe, "they're sitting this one out")
Red = USSR and allies (showing USSR invasion of Alaska "stopped butt cold" at the contiguous 48 US border, Occupied Canadian Provinces of British Columbia, Western portion of Alberta and the Yukon Territory, Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala fall, Mexico in revolution, Texas described as being behind enemy lines, Oklahoma and most of Kansas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Missouri probably overrun too, Colorado where the movie is set - invasion force stopped at Cheyenne, Wyoming. Blue circle shows Denver under siege.)
Grey = Unknown
Red squares = use of Soviet nuclear weapons - Beijing, Washington, Kansas City & Omaha
At the end of the movie the US is implied on a plaque as having won the war, although how they did it is not explained.

If The US stopped them at the Mississippi River, then the color used for the US state Mississippi is incorrect. Mississippi would be part of F.A. (Free America) not occupied as the map indicates

[Razgovory]

Colorado

Would that require the Canucks or Mexicans to betray the US?

Or would it only be necessary for Oregon* to turn Benedict Arnold?



*prowdly demonstrates the extend of his knowledge of US geography.

I think Mexico was communist in that film.

[Syt]

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/727570

MOSCOW, April 12, /ITAR-TASS/. If Kiev uses force in the southeast of Ukraine, a four-party meeting on the resolution of the Ukrainian crisis will be foiled, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry by telephone on Saturday, April 12.

Lavrov warned Kerry that "if Kiev's threats to use force against people driven to despair in the southeast are carried out, prospects for further cooperation on the Ukrainian issue, including a planned four-party meeting in Geneva, will be foiled," he said.

"The secretary of state voiced concern over protests in the south-eastern regions of Ukraine, stating that this is a result of 'incitement' and nearly direct interference by Russia. However he could not give any concrete facts and only repeated that Russia must remove its people from the southeast," the Foreign Ministry said.

Lavrov drew Kerry's attention one more time to the fact that "the acute political crisis in Ukraine in general and in its south-eastern regions in particular was caused by the present Kiev authorities' failure to take into account the legitimate needs and interests of the Russian and Russian-speaking population," the ministry said.

"The leadership in Kiev is showing its inability to assume responsibility for the fate of the country and to effectively engage all political forces and regions in an inclusive process of drafting a new constitution," the ministry said.

The Russian minister also said that Russia was prepared to consider information about "Russian agents" in the southeast of Ukraine.

He recalled similar complaints from acting Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andrei Deshchitsa. "If the American side has concrete information to this effect, we are ready to consider it," Lavrov said.

[mongers]

Video of latest seizure in East Ukraine:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27007398

Ukraine crisis: Kramatorsk police headquarters stormed

1 hour ago

Pro-Russia militants have stormed a police headquarters in the eastern Ukraine city of Kramatorsk.

The attackers seized the police department after an exchange of fire with officers defending the building which lasted several minutes.

Peter Dobbie reports.

[Syt]

Russia says if Ukraine uses force against Russian speakers in the East then this would undermine the scheduled talks next week between US, EU, Russia, and Ukraine.

[The Brain]

I don't think this little squabble in an obscure part of Europe will affect the great powers much.

[Syt]

BBC live ticker:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27008054

BREAKING NEWS One member of the Ukrainian security forces has been killed and five others have been wounded in clashes in Sloviansk, Ukraine's interior minister has said. Arsen Avakov said there had been an "unidentifiable number" of pro-Russian casualties during the "anti-terror" operation.

"This happened at one of the roadblocks set up by the separatists. They opened direct fire at security forces as they were approaching the roadbclock," an unnamed security source told a Ukrainian news agency.

[Syt]

Petkov, man of a 1000 Identities (or 3 at least).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/04/12/russian-tv-caught-red-handed-same-guy-same-demonstration-but-three-different-people-spy-bystander-heroic-surgeon/

Russian TV Caught Red-handed: Same Guy Three Different People (Spy, Bystander, Heroic Surgeon)

Pity Russian propagandists. They must stage scenes of massive and violent demonstrations in East and South Ukraine. They must patch together actual demonstration footage with images of exploding grenades, intermittent automatic weapon fire, wounded pro-Russian civilians, and menacing Ukrainian extremists, organized, paid for, and directed by sinister outside forces. They must show valiant local civilians opposing the Neo-Nazi and ultra-nationalist juggernaut from Kiev.

The Putin propaganda machine cannot rest. It must provide new footage daily for a viewing public eager for the next Ukrainian outrage, growing angrier with each passing day, and asking: When will our great leader, Vladimir Putin, go in and rescue our poor brethren across the border in Ukraine?

Interviews with innocent by-standers and ordinary citizens are a staple fare of the coverage. A woman shows the camera hundreds of spent cartridges she gathered after a night of violence. Extremists turn outraged local residents, on their way to visit wounded comrades, away from the hospital.  A babushka, in tears, bemoans the terror in which she lives and pleads for the Russians to restore order and civilization. Pretty good stuff. I'd believe it if I did not know better.

The Russian propagandists, trapped on a racing assembly line, are bound to cross wires on occasion. They will make mistakes, which they hope that viewers will not catch. But they have made a huge blunder, for which heads are falling in TV studios in Moscow and in Crimea: Three different channels have featured interviews with one Andrei Petkov, lying wounded in a hospital in the south Ukrainian city of Nikolayev. In the three interviews, he is identified by name. He is on his back in a hospital bed, describing his experiences in the previous evening's violence, which left him with serious wounds. Petkov is dressed in a black outfit, his nose bandaged. In each interview, he speaks softly, but with earnest conviction. He cuts a sympathetic and credible figure.

The problem is that Andrei  Petkov is a different person in each interview!


Andrei Petkov, Ordinary Citizen

On Rossia 1 national news (Vesti), Petkov describes himself as an ordinary citizen of Nikolayev, who went on April 9 "as usual" to protest against the new Ukrainian government.  At the demonstration, he was attacked by Neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists, who had been  escorted into the city in busses by the Ukrainian police on  orders to disperse local demonstrators by force. Petkov testifies that the radicals opened fire on peaceful demonstrators using weapons given them by Europe and the United States. (His interview is interrupted by traumatic scenes of fleeing civilians, rapid gunfire and exploding grenades). Petkov declares that he suffered a brain concussion and other gunfire wounds, which will leave him incapacitated for six months. Petkov, himself, appears to have only a bandaged nose, and the camera crew shows no pictures of the other "heavily wounded victims of the shooting." They, with the exception of Petkov,  appear to have been dismissed from the radical-controlled hospital only one day after the shootings.


Andrei Petkov, German Spy

NTV national news conducted an "exclusive" interview with the same Petkov, in the same hospital bed, with the same bandaged nose, only this is an entirely different Petkov. In a contrite voice, Petkov confesses he is a German spy for a secret European organization. Since he left his native Nikolayev in 1992, he acquired several citizenships and has German, Ukrainian and Russian passports. Petkov claims to own fifteen gerontology clinics in Germany and a chateau in Switzerland.  This Petkov has done well for himself.

Petkov says that he flew in from Germany, where he lives, with a half million Euros, which he received from a secret group he refused to name. He bought weapons and hired a squad of fifty  European mercenaries  to put down both Nikolayev's civilian protesters against new Ukrainian government and radical neo-Nazi intruders from Kiev. He wanted a "civilized" solution, but in the melee he fell afoul of the Ukrainian extremists, who shot him in the leg and nose. He had to beg the "creepy young" Ukrainian extremists for his life. He is currently waiting to be operated on and is in the hospital under special security protection.


Andrei Petkov, Pediatric Surgeon, Benefactor, and Patriot

The National Independent News of Crimea  interviewed a third Petkov, in the same hospital, same hospital garb, and same bandage on his nose. This Petkov is noble pediatric surgeon who saved the lives of over 200 infants and who returned to his native city of Nikolayev with an "indefinite" sum of his own money to help organize local protesters against the new Ukrainian government. Attending the nighttime demonstration as an innocent bystander, he found himself caught up in a nightmare of exploding grenades and rapid gunfire from the neo-Nazi extremists. As a physician, he attempted to tend to the wounded carried into tents, but the extremists fired into the makeshift emergency facility. During the shooting he himself was wounded in the nose and leg.  The defiant Petkov declares that he is not intimidated. He will personally continue to resist until justice is achieved.

Internet viewers of  Rossia 1 news and NTV report posted on YouTube caught the Petkov fabrications and expressed their outrage. The viewers of  the  Crimean news fairly tale were given no chance to comment.

The Petkov fabrications would make for a good laugh were the situation not so serious. Readers should not think that Petkov affair is an isolated incident. It is the norm rather than the exception. Viewers of Russian television are fed a daily diet of fabrications that show non-existent gun battles, savage beatings of innocent civilians, sinister forces proudly displaying Nazi regalia, and tearful residents of east and south Ukraine longing for annexation into Russia. Readers must understand that the Crimean Anschluss, accepted by many in the West, as a joyous, celebratory reunion was a cynical spectacle organized by Russian special forces, protest tourists, and local mafia thugs.

The Petkov Blunder shows that Russian propaganda has no regard for the truth and is willing to resort to the crudest of disinformation to form public opinion at home, in Ukraine, and abroad. Who knows how many Western tthe hospitalelevision stations have carried such lies? They definitely accepted the Russian version – joyful people, band music and dancing, and Soviet-style 97 percent votes. After the Petkov Blunder how can we believe anything that Russian propaganda says?

That many Russian viewers have bought into Putin's Big Lie tells us something about their psychological makeup.  The fabricated  scenes of mass violence, grenade explosions, and constant automatic weapon fire should raise a number of questions for viewers. Where is the film of solemn funerals of those killed in the mayhem? Russian camera crews, unlike other Russians denied admission, were in the hospital to which the seriously wounded were carried. Why did the camera crews not film the crowded wards full of the victims of Ukrainian violence? Why did the ubiquitous Mr. Petkov not show his leg pierced by a bullet? It seems strange that his nose with the direct hit of a revolver bullet would be treated with a single bandage?

Apparently Russian viewers want to believe these fairy tales. They want to think their country is in the right. They want to be proud of their country. Accordingly, they make ideal subjects for Big Lie propaganda.  I do not know how they will feel when they eventually learn the truth.

I have a more immediate question for the Putin trolls, who earn a living disputing almost every word I write on Putin's actions in Ukraine. How are you going to explain this one? My guess is that the Putin trolls will remain silent. Let's see.

[Viking]

It's article 13 of the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights": "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."

Except they need a passport issued by their government to do that.  Some universal right, I don't need a free speech permit.

I'd consider fundamental human rights to include the right to decline to agree with everything the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" says.

No, it's just that Russian Citizens should have a right to a passport, a right to travel between countries and a right to return home. Basically, if they have a visa to visit another country they have a right to go there, and once they leave they have a right to return. This is often used against dissidents who travel to promote their cause, they find they are barred from returning to their home country.

[jimmy olsen]

 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27008054

12:37:

Russian state TV channel Rossiya 1 is reporting that Kiev launched its "anti-terror operation" after secret consultations with CIA chief John Brennan in Ukraine. "The order to start the special operation was given by head of the Interior Ministry Avakov. By doing that, he essentially announced the beginning of a civil war," Rossiya 1 said.

12:13: David Stern BBC News

writes from Donetsk: More and more police stations and government buildings are falling to unidentified gunmen - who carry Russian weapons and look very much like the Kremlin forces who took Crimea. Ukraine's government appears to not have a choice whether to use force. The choice, it seems, is being made for them.

[Tamas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwhErv6Wujc&feature=youtu.be

Apparently that's a video showing how a bunch of Russian civilians stop a truckload of Ukrainian reservists, and scare them into handing over their weapons. 

If something like that can happen, one must ask the question: is Ukraine a failed state? What kind of function can a state uphold, if it's armed forces surrender to unarmed opposing forces?

[DGuller]

Of course it's a failed state.  Its GDP per capita is 25% that of Russia, their army is completely dilapidated and utterly unprepared to fight, and the Russians haven't even started to steamroll them yet.