Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Richard Hakluyt]

I haven't got the figures to hand, but I had the impression that Romania and Bulgaria are failing to converge on the EU average. Spain was a model entrant in that it converged very successfully, moving from that 70% to about 90%, that 90% becoming just over 100% when the big Eastern enlargement took place.

[Caliga]

Spellus calling out others on being bizarre?

[Iormlund]

Spain's GDP per capita was about 70% of the EEC average on joining, the gap the Ukraine faces is far more daunting.

Ukraine's net GDP appears to be half that of Romania or Bulgaria, which IIRC are the EU's poorest members.

On the other hand if they could manage to take in Romania and Bulgari, Ukraine isn't that much further a stretch.

Many people think taking those two was a mistake. Both because of migration issues (Spain alone houses over half a million Romanians) and widespread corruption hindering development.

[Queequeg]

I find them completely fascinating and love them to death, but they're strange in just about every way a European ethnicity can be strange.  They're economically successful communitarians living in an infertile, mountainous area who speak a pre-Indo-European language west of the Caucasus, maintained female inheritance rights, and a pretty complex tribal structure up in to the 20th Century. 

Keep in mind, when I call a people "bizarre" it's rarely an insult. 

[Caliga]

Well I agree with you re: their language.  I listened to videos of Basque once on YT and it sounded like baby talk to me. bar bar bar bar bar...

[Barrister]

Spain's GDP per capita was about 70% of the EEC average on joining, the gap the Ukraine faces is far more daunting.

Ukraine's net GDP appears to be half that of Romania or Bulgaria, which IIRC are the EU's poorest members.

On the other hand if they could manage to take in Romania and Bulgari, Ukraine isn't that much further a stretch.

Many people think taking those two was a mistake. Both because of migration issues (Spain alone houses over half a million Romanians) and widespread corruption hindering development.

But as Psellus pointed out, there's no realistic "third way" for Ukraine.  Either the EU goes out to assist and embrace Ukraine (maybe not full membership/Schengen, but substantial aid and economic integration), or it will be forced to turn back to Russian domination.

[katmai]

Well I agree with you re: their language.  I listened to videos of Basque once on YT and it sounded like baby talk to me. bar bar bar bar bar...

Fuck you too Cal.

[Queequeg]

Basque just sounds like Castellano to me.  Maybe with some weird Finnish sounds and the weird Rio de Jainero zchse sound. 

[Queequeg]

It's really weird, actually.  I didn't expect it but it has a very distinctly Spanish rhythm. 

[Tonitrus]

http://obozrevatel.com/politics/15083-predstavitel-rf-v-evroparlamente-rossiya-namerena-prisoedinit-alyasku-stranyi-baltii-finlyandiyu-i-polshu.htm

"Russian representative in the Council of Europe: Russia will regain Alaska , the Baltic countries , Finland and Poland"



Can any Russian speaker confirm the link, please?

The angle of this article is more about whether the dude is legit or not.

[Iormlund]

But as Psellus pointed out, there's no realistic "third way" for Ukraine.  Either the EU goes out to assist and embrace Ukraine (maybe not full membership/Schengen, but substantial aid and economic integration), or it will be forced to turn back to Russian domination.

The EU can nudge Ukraine in certain directions but its power is limited by the Ukranians themselves (or rather their elites). Membership doesn't confer any advantage beyond access to agricultural and structural funds, which are relatively limited despite all the hubbub (and which won't be of much use in the hands of corrupt oligarchs). Meanwhile you are opening your markets to some of the most competitive companies on Earth. If the only cards you can play are dismal salaries and worthless currency you are fucked.

It is not accession to the EU that brings wealth. It's the process one must undertake in order to be successful within the Union that eventually does.

[Iormlund]

Basque just sounds like Castellano to me. 

That's hardly surprising since both languages have long influenced each other. In fact the birthplace of castellano is just south of current Euskadi.

[Queequeg]

Basque just sounds like Castellano to me. 

That's hardly surprising since both languages have long influenced each other. In fact the birthplace of castellano is just south of current Euskadi.

Yeah exactly.  I just didn't expect it.  Pamplona was one of the birthplaces of both Basque and Castillan culture, too.   

[Queequeg]

Iberia's fucking fascinating.  It's cool too because in a lot of ways it's extremely similar to Anatolia.  They are like mirror images. 

[Iormlund]

Yeah exactly.  I just didn't expect it.  Pamplona was one of the birthplaces of both Basque and Castillan culture, too.

The oldest protocastillian text was found in a church in Northern Burgos, within spitting distance of the current border with the Basque Country.

Iberia's fucking fascinating.  It's cool too because in a lot of ways it's extremely similar to Anatolia.  They are like mirror images.

I wouldn't go that far. But it's true that in many ways Turkey reminds me of Spain in the 70s.