Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Razgovory]

That sounds more like a Slargos or KC4 schtick.

I swear it was Norgy and he was talking to this Russian woman and pretended he was descended from a member of the SS Viking Division.  She actually started saying how great the SS Viking was...man some people will do anything to escape Russia.

I recall something similar.

[Hansmeister]

Welcome back Norgy!

Back on topic.  This is the best case scenario as laid out by influential Putin advisor Alexandr Dugan:

Scenario Russian spring

1. Kiev takes a waiting position, concentrates its troops on the border with the Crimea, and threatens, but takes no direct action. The U.S. strongly pressures Russia, freezing accounts, and actively wages information war, but they and NATO avoid direct clashes. Kiev receives substantial support from the West, but focuses on domestic issues. The border with Russia is closed.

The referendum [in the Crimea on whether to join Russia] passes with minimal problems. The vast majority vote for joining Russia. No country recognizes the referendum except Russia. Russia raises the question of retaliatory actions if it receives Crimea into Russia. Both chambers of the Duma promptly ratify the annexation. Crimea is returned to Russia. Russian forces enter.

The West rages strong pressure on Russia. Militants in the North Caucasus and the fifth column in Moscow are activated. Putin is supported by everyone. His popularity among the people climaxes. This helps him cope with internal challenges.

2. In eastern Ukraine, Kiev starts to take tough punitive measures. There is a straight nationalist dictatorship. Individuals attempt to attack Crimea or commit acts of sabotage. They start taking revenge on Russians and the Russian-speaking east and south for the loss of Crimea. This leads to the onset of resistance. The second phase of Ukrainian drama begins: The Battle for New Russia. People wake up at once and quickly. Ukraine establishes a state of emergency, in connection with what is defined as "Muscovite aggression." The last traces of democracy are abolished. Elections are held in May in wartime.

3. The nationalists arrange a series of terrorist attacks in Russia. In Russia itself, the regime evolves, and starts to clean out the fifth column.

4. In Novorossia, resistance increases and gradually moves to the phase of direct rebellion against the Kiev henchmen. There is a bloody civil war. Russia deploys massive effective support structure; symmetrically the West supports Kiev. At a certain moment, in response to the sabotage in Russia and bloody actions of the nationalists and the repressive apparatus of Kiev against civilians and the east of Ukraine, Russia sends its troops into the east. The West threatens nuclear war. This is the existential moment for Putin. But he cannot stop. Going hard (possibly with heavy losses), Novorossia is liberated. The Left-bank Ukraine is conquered, with its border along the Dnieper. A new government is founded — for example, Ukraine or Novorossia. Or a version of Crimea may be repeated.

5. The Right-bank Ukraine, which does not recognize secession (as Yugoslavia under Milosevic and later Serbia against Kosovo), forms a new de facto Ukraine-2 state. NATO bases are immediately located on its territory, stopping the possibility of Russian move to Kiev.

6. The new rigidly nationalistic Ukrainian government quickly comes to a crisis. Direct clashes begin between ethnic groups (Ruthenians, Hungarians, Poles, Romanians, other minorities) and on political grounds (power loss blamed for half the territories of Ukraine). The state weakens. The process of new secessions begins.

7. Russia does not stop there, but carries activity into Europe, acting as the main element of the European Conservative Revolution. Europe starts to crack: Some countries are behind the U.S., but more often begin to listen to Russia. Against the background of the financial crisis, Russia's position becomes more attractive. Russia takes on the protection of multipolarity, continentalism, and new conservatism (the Fourth Political Theory).

8. In western Ukraine, Ukraine-2, a pro-European (pro-German) political force comes to power that begins to soften anti-Russian policy and moves away from the U.S.

9. Across Europe, the de-Americanization process begins. An autonomous European armed force is created independent of NATO on the basis of the German Armed Forces and the French.

10. A new great Continental Association is formed, as a confederation of Europe and Eurasia, the European Union and the Eurasian Union. Russian, Ukrainians and Europeans are on one side of the barricades, the Americans on the other. American hegemony and dominance of the dollar as well as domination of Atlanticism, liberalism and the financial oligarchy is ended. A new page in world history begins. The Slavs are reunited not against Europe, but with Europe in the framework of a multipolar polycentric world. From Lisbon to Vladivostok.

Completely delusional.

[Beenherebefore]

Wow.

Now that is something, ehm, different.

I have a feeling that communication broke down ages ago with the Russians. We live on separate planets.

[Beenherebefore]

That sounds more like a Slargos or KC4 schtick.

I swear it was Norgy and he was talking to this Russian woman and pretended he was descended from a member of the SS Viking Division.  She actually started saying how great the SS Viking was...man some people will do anything to escape Russia.

I recall something similar.

You're right, something like that did happen. Fun for a while, too.

[Viking]

Welcome back Norgy!

Back on topic.  This is the best case scenario as laid out by influential Putin advisor Alexandr Dugan:

Basically, he expects all of his enemies to do straight 180s i their policy and attitude towards the US and Russia.

Do remember we are not dealing with a free society here. Very much mental energy is spent on maintaining cognitive dissonance in unfree societies. Even on the most basic level, maintaining the belief that I am a good and brave person who, when confronted with evil, will act against evil requires large amounts of self delusion about the nature of the regime, the world itself and epistemology to sustain when you live in putin's russia where actually standing up for what is right at best loses you your job.

[Beenherebefore]

Meanwhile, being photographed shirtless on horseback makes you presidential.

[celedhring]

Welcome back Norgy!

Back on topic.  This is the best case scenario as laid out by influential Putin advisor Alexandr Dugan:

Lunacy

Completely delusional.

This reads as:

1) Trouble in Ukraine
2) ?????
3) World domination

What's the source? Want to share it.

[Beenherebefore]

Sure it's not Alexandr Dugin, Hans?

I tried googling Dugan, and didn't really find much. Dugin, however, seems suitably insane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

[grumbler]

Sure it's not Alexandr Dugin, Hans?

I tried googling Dugan, and didn't really find much. Dugin, however, seems suitably insane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

  Are you really going to celebrate your return by being petty over a typo?  I clash with Hans all the time, but wouldn't go that low.  You are a better Norwegian than this.

[Hansmeister]

Sure it's not Alexandr Dugin, Hans?

I tried googling Dugan, and didn't really find much. Dugin, however, seems suitably insane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

Sorry, typo it is Dugin.  Yes, batsht insane, yet an advisor to Putin.

[Hansmeister]

Welcome back Norgy!

Back on topic.  This is the best case scenario as laid out by influential Putin advisor Alexandr Dugan:

Lunacy

Completely delusional.

This reads as:

1) Trouble in Ukraine
2) ?????
3) World domination

What's the source? Want to share it.

Originally posted in Russian on Dugin's Facebook page. Translated into English by NR.

[Beenherebefore]

Sure it's not Alexandr Dugin, Hans?

I tried googling Dugan, and didn't really find much. Dugin, however, seems suitably insane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

  Are you really going to celebrate your return by being petty over a typo?  I clash with Hans all the time, but wouldn't go that low.  You are a better Norwegian than this.

Not at all, I'd never heard of the bloke before, but my oh my, does he seem "interesting". It was by no means meant as anything else than an honest question.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/russia-theme/who-is-alexander-dugin

Sounds like an interesting dinner party guest. If you're Lucretia Borgia.

[derspiess]

Jews for Hitler.

Speaking of which, this was fascinating:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/museums/10682975/The-Jews-who-fought-for-Hitler-We-did-not-help-the-Germans.-We-had-a-common-enemy.html

I saw that yesterday and cringed at the headline.  They were fighting for Finland.

[Valmy]

I saw that yesterday and cringed at the headline.  They were fighting for Finland.

It is definitely an example of that annoying quality of the media (and politicians really) to be able to say something not untrue but still be misleading to the point of lying.

[derspiess]

Oh yeah, I read an article on that Dugin guy a while back-- IIRC he was trying to make some sort of appeal to US conservatives but there was zero common ground.