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Ukraine's European Revolution?

Started by Sheilbh, December 03, 2013, 07:39:37 AM

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Berkut

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 03, 2014, 05:34:36 PM
The same thing's going to happen in the Ukraine that happened in Georgia;  Russia gets control over the regions that Russia wants.  And there's nothing anybody's going to do about it.

Probably true.

Which is pretty much the point of the article you posted above.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Ed Anger

Germany disbanded the 7th Panzer.  :cry:
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

OttoVonBismarck

And whatever about Germany, the thing is frequently throughout the Cold War the United States recognized that at times, Europe which was much closer to the front lines couldn't take a strong stand--but the United States could. Barack needs to get over this concept that he can't act internationally without the entire Western world working with him. As long as he does, the West has no strength, because you'll never get the US, France, UK, and Germany all lined up on any issue of substance--and Putin only needs to consult with himself and a few close allies within Russia (if even that.)

Sheilbh

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Carl Bernstein (of Watergate fame) claimed on CNN that Merkele is strongly opposed to any sanctions regime "with teeth."
Germany's opposed to energy sanctions. The UK's opposed to financial sanctions :bleeding:
Let's bomb Russia!

Queequeg

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."---Edward Snowden
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

derspiess

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 03, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Carl Bernstein (of Watergate fame) claimed on CNN that Merkele is strongly opposed to any sanctions regime "with teeth."

Yeah, big deal.  She got Putin to agree to a fact-finding mission.  CRISIS: SOLVED
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Berkut on March 03, 2014, 06:41:49 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 03, 2014, 05:34:36 PM
The same thing's going to happen in the Ukraine that happened in Georgia;  Russia gets control over the regions that Russia wants.  And there's nothing anybody's going to do about it.

Probably true.

Which is pretty much the point of the article you posted above.

The point of my article was to blame Obama.  I blame the EU for being an economic cocktease, playing footsie with the Ukrainians and incurring the wrath of Russian historic insecurities.

Berkut

Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 03, 2014, 07:13:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 03, 2014, 06:41:49 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 03, 2014, 05:34:36 PM
The same thing's going to happen in the Ukraine that happened in Georgia;  Russia gets control over the regions that Russia wants.  And there's nothing anybody's going to do about it.

Probably true.

Which is pretty much the point of the article you posted above.

The point of my article was to blame Obama.  I blame the EU for being an economic cocktease, playing footsie with the Ukrainians and incurring the wrath of Russian historic insecurities.

There is plenty of blame for Obama.

I said it back at the time that drawing lines and then refusing to actually make them mean something has nasty long term repercussions.

It isn't easy standing up to a bully without starting a fight, but it can be done. However, it cannot be done AFTER you've given him your lunch money three times already.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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CountDeMoney

Quote from: Berkut on March 03, 2014, 07:16:09 PM
There is plenty of blame for Obama.

I said it back at the time that drawing lines and then refusing to actually make them mean something has nasty long term repercussions.

It isn't easy standing up to a bully without starting a fight, but it can be done. However, it cannot be done AFTER you've given him your lunch money three times already.

Examples, please.


derspiess

QuoteWhat about Europe?
I guess they figured twice in one century was enough. They're sitting this one out. All except England Poland, and they won't last very long.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

DGuller

I have a sinking feeling that when I wake up tomorrow and check Google News, I'll find out that a full-scale war broke out.


Grinning_Colossus

I'm not sure how full-scale a Russia-Ukraine war would be. Ukraine doesn't even seem to be mobilizing.
Quis futuit ipsos fututores?

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

DGuller

Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on March 03, 2014, 07:41:27 PM
I'm not sure how full-scale a Russia-Ukraine war would be. Ukraine doesn't even seem to be mobilizing.
Ukraine did mobilize.