Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Valmy]

That was something rather notorious about Soviet Justice right?  All these Byzantine laws that generally would only be applied if you pissed somebody important off.

[Queequeg]

Why can't it be both?  She is incredibly corrupt, but the conviction was bullshit (and even if she were convicted for something she were guilty of, selective justice is still injustice).

Of course it can be both, but then we need some evidence apart from the trial verdict to determine she was corrupt.

Is there any?

She's a politician east of Poland and west of Japan. 

[The Brain]

Hasn't been an honest politician in the Ukraine since Charles XII visited.

[jimmy olsen]

Police from parts of western Ukraine have come to Kiev to support the protesters.  Klitschko is having a hard time selling the deal to the protesters in Maidan.  They're apparently by 10:00am tomorrow or "storm" (?)

The protestors will storm ...? The police will storm the protestors?

[derspiess]

Police from parts of western Ukraine have come to Kiev to support the protesters.  Klitschko is having a hard time selling the deal to the protesters in Maidan.  They're apparently by 10:00am tomorrow or "storm" (?)

The protestors will storm ...? The police will storm the protestors?

Eh, I'm pretty sure the police aren't going to storm the protesters if Yanu doesn't resign.  I'm taking it to mean that the protesters will storm wherever the hell Yanu lives depose him themselves.

[derspiess]

That was something rather notorious about Soviet Justice right?  All these Byzantine laws that generally would only be applied if you pissed somebody important off.

Sounds like the US Army.

[Razgovory]

It's entirely possible (and probably likely), that she is guilty of corruption charges, but was only charged because she was a political enemy.  It's also possible that her corruption was so blatant that even her allies wouldn't try to save her.

Timoshenko has been a cause celebre both inside and outside of Ukraine ever since her imprisonment.

I was thinking about her political allies, like Yushchenko.

[Malthus]

?

Either it was a legit conviction and she's corrupt, or it was a bullshit conviction and she's not.

It's like a Chinese menu - a bit from column "A", a bit from column "B" ... 

Mind you, I haven't actually seen the evidence, but my guess is that you don't become one of Ukraine's richest women in the post-Soviet era, and the most prominent politico, without *some* corruption.

That said, her conviction was also pretty clearly political.

[derspiess]

It's like a Chinese menu - a bit from column "A", a bit from column "B" ... 

Mind you, I haven't actually seen the evidence, but my guess is that you don't become one of Ukraine's richest women in the post-Soviet era, and the most prominent politico, without *some* corruption.

I think I read where she acquired the local video rental monopoly after the Soviet Union split up.  Given the way all that stuff happened, I'd say yeah, there had to be some corruption there.  But she looks (or looked-- I imagine she's aged a bit in prison) so cute with that hair braiding thing she does, I'd be willing to forgive a little corruption.

[Malthus]

It's like a Chinese menu - a bit from column "A", a bit from column "B" ... 

Mind you, I haven't actually seen the evidence, but my guess is that you don't become one of Ukraine's richest women in the post-Soviet era, and the most prominent politico, without *some* corruption.

I think I read where she acquired the local video rental monopoly after the Soviet Union split up.  Given the way all that stuff happened, I'd say yeah, there had to be some corruption there.  But she looks (or looked-- I imagine she's aged a bit in prison) so cute with that hair braiding thing she does, I'd be willing to forgive a little corruption.

She is certainly the easiest on the eyes of all Ukrainian politicians. 

[DGuller]

It's entirely possible (and probably likely), that she is guilty of corruption charges, but was only charged because she was a political enemy.  It's also possible that her corruption was so blatant that even her allies wouldn't try to save her.

Timoshenko has been a cause celebre both inside and outside of Ukraine ever since her imprisonment.

I was thinking about her political allies, like Yushchenko.

Yushchenko is no ally of hers, in fact they're bitter enemies now.  And in any case, Yushchenko is a complete non-entity, and his catastrophic incompetence is indirectly responsible for the mess Ukraine is in now.

[Maximus]

Police from parts of western Ukraine have come to Kiev to support the protesters.  Klitschko is having a hard time selling the deal to the protesters in Maidan.  They're apparently by 10:00am tomorrow or "storm" (?)

The protestors will storm ...? The police will storm the protestors?

Eh, I'm pretty sure the police aren't going to storm the protesters if Yanu doesn't resign.  I'm taking it to mean that the protesters will storm wherever the hell Yanu lives depose him themselves.

That's my read too.

"Tomorrow by 10am Yanukovych must resign. If not, we will storm with arms"

That's from twitter though. Hard to tell how much weight is behind it.

They're having a very hard time selling the deal to the protesters though.

[merithyn]

Max, Andrew posted something on Facebook that got a reply from another protester that pretty much said that they won't be happy unless/until Yanukovych is deposed/dead.

[Maximus]

Reports that Yanukovytch has fled to Kharkiv only to be greeted by a massive protest there.

[Viking]

Again, not really?  Germany went from rubble to the wealthiest nation in Europe in, what, 30 years?  These historical legacies are crucial. 

I think there's an argument to be made that the Soviet destruction of the relatively functional Ukrainian agricultural economy did permanent damage to the Ukrainian economy.    I don't know, however.

That's because the country was still full of engineers, scientists, businessmen and skilled workmen in 1945. Depriving a country of it's skilled workers and shipping them off to siberia while systematically favoring loyal russified areas with the resources to sustain teachers, engineers and skilled labor over 70 years of socialism will have a lasting effect.