Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Queequeg]

"The Soviet Union will review your proposal."
"Soviet Union?  I thought you guys broke up?"
"We were joking."  The line in The Simpsons is "That's what we WANTED you to think!", which is when the wall pops up over the Museum and tanks roll out of the parade.

[Neil]

i haven't altered my points at all. all i've seen coming from you is insults, not actual arguments. i made a few replies to your posts earlier in the thread, but you ignored them.. then out of no where just came a full out attack where you accused me of a lot of things. it was seriously bizarre, and i'm still not sure where the hostility stemmed from. it was a real chris christie moment. but if you're backing out of the discussion, that's fine. and i might have to consider taco bell once i've graduated from law school

That's just the way Otto is.  he cannot imagine anyone disagreeing with him unless they are somehow mentally defective, and he expects you to burst into tears when he changes one of the syllables in your user name to "fag."  You have to either try to think like a fourth-grader and respond to his stuff in the same emotional vein in which he posts, or just laugh and point.  There's no sense even trying to pretend you can engage him intellectually.  Sounds like you are going for option 2.  Good.  That's where the smart money goes.

lol.  fagler.  That's brilliant!

Seriously though, law school is a bad idea.

[alfred russel]

Do you really think this stops at the Crimea? It seems like we are a possible pretext and short time away from discussing eastern ukraine instead.

It could very well go beyond the Crimea.  Does that make it a win for Russia?

You wrote:

"I don't think it's a win for Russia if they end up with de facto control of the Crimea, not recognized by anyone except Belarus, permanent armed confrontation with Ukraine and possibly Europe and the US, and pariah status internationally."

-change Crimea to Eastern Ukraine (not saying this is definite by any means)
-not sure why the recognition matters much. Recognition is very important for a new state, but not regarding control of a preexisting one.
-extended armed confrontation with the Ukraine is unlikely, and there will be no armed confrontation with the U.S. or Europe
-Pariah status internationally is hard to define. They won't be pariahs like North Korea or even Iran. A cold warrior like Putin might actually prefer to be somewhat of a pariah from the west.

In economic terms, Russia almost certainly loses. But I don't think this is about economics.

[alfred russel]

"The Soviet Union will review your proposal."
"Soviet Union?  I thought you guys broke up?"
"We were joking."  The line in The Simpsons is "That's what we WANTED you to think!", which is when the wall pops up over the Museum and tanks roll out of the parade.

Maybe something was lost in the translation.

[jimmy olsen]

Poland reportedly moving troops to the Ukraine border.

Can you post a source?

[Scipio]

All of my parents' friends who are on facebook are spooging all over themselves with "Russia gonna get Crimea back!" bullshit, in direct proportion to how hard they diss Obama. And when I dare to call them on it, they get all pissy. Fucking olds. None of their asses moved back to Russia after the fall of communism. Goddamn hypocrites.

[LaCroix]

That's just the way Otto is.  he cannot imagine anyone disagreeing with him unless they are somehow mentally defective, and he expects you to burst into tears when he changes one of the syllables in your user name to "fag."  You have to either try to think like a fourth-grader and respond to his stuff in the same emotional vein in which he posts, or just laugh and point.  There's no sense even trying to pretend you can engage him intellectually.  Sounds like you are going for option 2.  Good.  That's where the smart money goes.

i agree with him the majority of the time, but oh well!

Seriously though, law school is a bad idea.

it would be a terrible idea but for a few factors, 1) i'm in north dakota, and the oil boom has created so much misery that there's a huge need for attorneys; 2) i'm attending the only law school in north dakota, a state whose legal community is fairly close knit; 3) i'm doing well and have a reputable internship lined up for the summer. (edit) and 4) my school is one of the cheapest law schools in the union for in-state tuition. i'll be graduating with around $50k debt

[grumbler]

i agree with him the majority of the time, but oh well!

Must be about college football! 

[Razgovory]

I genuinely distrust Germany in terms of NATO. I think if Russia was moving into Latvia or Lithuania or Estonia it'd be true Cuban Missile Crisis shit between the US, UK, and much of the rest of NATO and Russia. Meaning "if you really want to go to a nuclear war, we will be, but you're not staying in those countries without an outright war with NATO even if that means a nuclear war", just like the Cold War. I could see Germany arguing we need to just let the Baltic Republics fall.

I suspect you are right.  You can probably throw in a few other countries like Italy, Spain, Denmark and the Benelux who would be unwilling to stand up to Russia.

[Queequeg]

Reports of explosions in Simferopol. 

[PDH]

That's where the smart money goes.

Or just read his posts when you are drunk, that helps make them clear.

[Queequeg]

This is just so fucking stupid on every level.

[PDH]

This is just so fucking stupid on every level.

Wait.  Was that aimed at me?

[Sheilbh]

I suspect you are right.  You can probably throw in a few other countries like Italy, Spain, Denmark and the Benelux who would be unwilling to stand up to Russia.

Why add Denmark?

I'm sure we're all glad to finally have the Stop the War Coalition weighing in:

Stop The War Coalition Says U.S. Must Share Blame For Ukraine Crisis
Britain, the European Union and NATO are all attacked by the anti-war organisation for contributing to the crisis.
posted on March 2, 2014 at 5:07pm EST
Jim Waterson
BuzzFeed Staff



AP Photo/Matt Dunham
LONDON – Stop the War Coalition, the left-wing group that organised a million-strong protest against the invasion of Iraq in 2003, has said that the U.S. must share the blame for Russia's military intervention in Ukraine.

"Those who demand anti-war activity here in Britain against Russia are ignoring the history and the present reality in Ukraine and Crimea," wrote the organisation's convenor Lindsey German in an article posted on Sunday.

"Who is the aggressor?," the piece asks. "The obvious answer seems to be that it is Russia, but that is far from the whole picture."

"The United States is centrally involved. It oversaw the removal of [former Ukrainian President] Yanukovich, and its neocons are desperately trying to develop an excuse for war with the Russians."

It goes on to add: "Ever since the end of the Cold War in 1991, the European Union (EU) and NATO have been intent on surrounding Russia with military bases and puppet regimes sympathetic to the West, often installed by 'colour revolutions'."
German, a former candidate for Mayor of London, insists U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and UK Prime Minister David Cameron cannot be taken seriously when they oppose Russian intervention in the country: "No one should take lessons from people who invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and bombed Libya."

Stop the War Coalition was formed by a number of left-wing groups in the wake of the September 11 attacks to oppose actions carried out under the "war on terror" banner and attracted substantial public support for its protests against the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Last summer the group organised protests against planned western intervention in Syria. But until now it has not set out a position on the Ukraine crisis, despite repeated requests from journalists.

However Sunday's article, entitled "10 things to remember about the crisis in Ukraine and the Crimea", was met with an overwhelmingly hostile reaction from mainstream political pundits and journalists.

According to the piece, the U.S. and NATO have broken pledges made to Russia at the end of the Cold War by incorporating "most of Eastern Europe and the Balkan states to their own military alliance, and by building military bases along Russia's southern border."

The European Union is also blamed for helping to remove former Ukrainian president Yanukovich after he rejected the organisation's "privatising, neoliberal agenda".

Meanwhile United Nations General Secretary Ban Ki-moon is attacked for ignoring the role of western imperialism in the region and the prevalence of far-right groups in the Ukrainian protest movement.

"The B52 liberals only oppose wars when their own rulers do so, and support the ones carried out by our governments," the piece claims. "The job of any anti-war movement is to oppose its own government's role in these wars, and to explain what that government and its allies are up to."

"After the US failures in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria, the neocons are looking for a defeat of Russia over Ukraine, and by extension, China too."

[Queequeg]

This is just so fucking stupid on every level.

Wait.  Was that aimed at me?

No.  Vladimir Putin.  It's just the worst fucking decision a Russian leader has made since Kerensky decided not to ventilate Lenin's skull.