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Ukraine's European Revolution?

Started by Sheilbh, December 03, 2013, 07:39:37 AM

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Ed Anger

Quote from: derspiess on February 27, 2014, 11:35:37 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 27, 2014, 10:17:55 PM
My heart is not really in it to do a thorough dissection and debate on the topic of "derspiess: authoritarian?" It would be a shtick based argument, I think. The non-shtick derspiess seems a decent enough guy.

What's the best way to engage on a non-shtick level?

I accept your unconditional surrender :hug:

Now annex his Sudetenland.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Jacob

Quote from: derspiess on February 27, 2014, 11:35:37 PMI accept your unconditional surrender :hug:

It was merely seize-fire to give diplomacy a chance to work in response to your (apparently temporarily) dropping your shtick. A lasting peace requires mutual confidence building measures. It's way too early for you to hang up your "mission accomplished" banners.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Syt

Quote from: garbon on February 28, 2014, 01:28:30 AM
A seize fire? :unsure:

It's what you do when it's your turn in the Olympic torch relay.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Syt

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26379722

QuoteUkraine crisis: Crimea airports occupied

Russian military forces are blockading Sevastopol airport in the Ukrainian region of Crimea, Ukraine's interior minister has said.

Arsen Avakov called their presence an "armed invasion".

Armed men also took over the other main Crimean airport, Simferopol, on Friday morning.


Relations between Russia and the Ukraine have been strained since the ousting of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanokovych, who is now in Russia.

These tensions have been particularly evident in Crimea, Ukraine's only Russian-majority region.

The BBC's Bridget Kendall in Moscow says the Crimea is now becoming the lynchpin of a struggle between Ukraine's new leaders and those loyal to Russia.

On Thursday, pro-Russian armed men stormed the Simferopol parliament, ousted the existing cabinet and appointed a new prime minister.

Meanwhile, in a further challenge to Kiev, Mr Yanukovich is preparing to give a press conference on Friday, after resurfacing in Russia on Thursday, asserting that he is still Ukraine's lawful president.
A 'violation'

Armed men, said by Mr Avakov to be Russian soldiers, arrived in the Sevastopol military airport near Russia's Black Sea Fleet Base on Friday morning.

The men were patrolling outside, backed up by armoured vehicles, but Ukrainian military and border guards remained inside, Mr Avakov said.

"I consider what has happened to be an armed invasion and occupation in violation of all international agreements and norms," Mr Avakov said on his Facebook page.

Armed men also arrived at Simferopol airport overnight, some carrying Russian flags.
Armed men patrol at the airport in Simferopol, Crimea on 28 February 2014 It was unclear who the men in Simferopol were - they arrived at the airport in the early hours
Armed men patrol at the airport in Simferopol, Crimea on 28 February 2014. Despite their presence, Simferopol airport was said to be operating normally

A man called Vladimir told Reuters he was a volunteer helping the group there, though he said he did not know where they came from.

"I'm with the People's Militia of Crimea. We're simple people, volunteers," he said.

"We're here at the airport to maintain order. We'll meet the planes with a nice smile - the airport is working as normal."
Referendum

On Thursday, a separate group of unidentified armed men entered Crimea's parliament building by force, and hoisted a Russian flag on the roof.

The Crimean parliament later announced it would hold a referendum on expanding the region's autonomy on 25 May.

Recent developments in the Crimea region - which traditionally leans towards Moscow - heightened tensions with Russia, which scrambled fighter jets to monitor its borders on Thursday.

Russia's President, Vladimir Putin, last night urged his government to maintain relations with Kiev and even join Western efforts to bail out its troubled economy - but he is also rewarding the rebellious Crimean government with humanitarian aid from Russia.

US Secretary of State John Kerry has called on all sides to "step back and avoid any kind of provocations".

The US has sought assurances from Russia after President Vladimir Putin ordered snap military drills to test the combat readiness of troops in central and western Russia, near the border with Ukraine earlier in the week.

Mr Kerry said he had spoken to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, who vowed to respect Ukraine's "territorial integrity".

Crimea - where ethnic Russians are in a majority - was transferred from Russia to Ukraine in 1954.

Ethnic Ukrainians loyal to Kiev and Muslim Tatars - whose animus towards Russia stretches back to Stalin's deportations during World War Two - have formed an alliance to oppose any move back towards Moscow.

Russia, along with the US, UK and France, pledged to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in a memorandum signed in 1994.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Syt

I can't see those occupations as anything other than trying to force the interim government into using armed force to remove them and creating a pretext for Russian intervention.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Sheilbh

Yep. Hopefully the Ukrainian government's smart enough to see that.
Let's bomb Russia!

Syt

Yanukovich is scheduled to hold a press conference today in Rostov-on-Don, near the Russo-Ukrainian border.

Not since the first half of the 1940s have all those town names featured so prominently in international media.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Syt on February 28, 2014, 03:31:43 AM
I can't see those occupations as anything other than trying to force the interim government into using armed force to remove them and creating a pretext for Russian intervention.
Got to agree with you there, this looks really bad.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Syt

News from the other side:

http://rt.com/news/nato-us-lecture-russia-ukraine-074/

QuoteUS, NATO, EU lecture Russia with 'provocative statements' on Ukraine

Moscow has urged NATO to refrain from provocative statements on Ukraine and respect its non-bloc status after a chorus of Western politicians said Russia should be "transparent" about its military drills and avoid any steps that could be "misunderstood."

"When NATO starts giving a consideration the situation in Ukraine, it sends out the wrong signal," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement published on its website on Thursday.

As Ukraine's turmoil has shifted to the ethnic Russian-majority in the Crimea region, the US, NATO, and the EU have all voiced their concerns over the situation as well as come up with proposals on how Russia should act.  [...]



http://rt.com/news/crimea-airport-terminal-capture-095/

Quote'No takeover' at Crimean capital's airport, unidentified armed men on nearby patrol

A group of unidentified armed men in military uniforms have raided Simferopol International Airport in the capital of Crimea, Ukraine's autonomous region. They claimed to be looking for Ukrainian airlifted forces, the airport press service says.

The airport is currently working without delays.

According to eyewitnesses in the middle of the night at least three KamAZ trucks without license plates drove to the airport with about 50 men.

At first the group cordoned off the airport's domestic flights terminal, but then pushed forward.

I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Tamas

Yeah they are not wearing flags or other identifications, but if you check the photos their weapons look more sophisticated than what Enthusiastic Russian Patriot Ivan Ivanovich could keep in his living room closet. Those must be Russian soldiers there, and as Syt said, they are there to provoke a response.

The only question is Putin's ambition: just the Crimea, Crimea plus Eastern Ukraine, or go all in and install a puppet regime?

And if they do go in, what way is there to stop them beside having NATO troops shooting at Russian troops? And if they do that, what is there to guarantee the nukes won't start flying?

Lettow77

Relax, Tamas. Sergei Lavrov has given us his word.
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'

Syt

From BBC:


Armed men arrived at Simferopol airport in several trucks, and carrying Russian navy flags


They have declined to say who they are, and are wearing no identifying insignia


Men whom Ukraine says are Russian naval troops have also blocked roads to Sevastopol airport
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Tamas

Did not Russia pull the exact same shit with Kosovo? They landed paratroopers at the airport there, didn't they? And basically the way to deal with them was to ignore them and bomb the shit out of Serbia regardless?