Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Tamas]

The casus bellis just keep on piling

[KRonn]

My parents have gas heating of course, but they have also kept the old one using firewood or coal. They have been burning away the firewood reserves on the account of it being cheaper, I think that was a mistake. Almost all of the country's gas is coming from Russia through Ukraine, and I was reading that Hungary maybe has two weeks worth of reserves.

I am seriously starting to worry. Massive military exercise by the Russian forces near the border, pro-Russian armed guys controlling the Crimean parliament (they threw a flash grenade on a journalist, they are not just some random civilians), Ukraine and the West flexing their muscles regarding the Crimea. (although the latter is probably good).

I read something about more European drilling companies coming to the US to drill for natural gas because of the huge US reserves that are being found, and also as a way to be less dependent on Russian energy. Russia was supposedly getting concerned about the possibility of losing some of that energy business.

[grumbler]

I really shouldn't have to explain how dramatically a country can change with the wrong or right sort of government, and that it's not some Sonderweg bullshit about unique, inherited, unchangeable national character to a Hungarian... 

Says the guy who argues that building styles and name origins define "Europe."

[Tamas]

My parents have gas heating of course, but they have also kept the old one using firewood or coal. They have been burning away the firewood reserves on the account of it being cheaper, I think that was a mistake. Almost all of the country's gas is coming from Russia through Ukraine, and I was reading that Hungary maybe has two weeks worth of reserves.

I am seriously starting to worry. Massive military exercise by the Russian forces near the border, pro-Russian armed guys controlling the Crimean parliament (they threw a flash grenade on a journalist, they are not just some random civilians), Ukraine and the West flexing their muscles regarding the Crimea. (although the latter is probably good).

I read something about more European drilling companies coming to the US to drill for natural gas because of the huge US reserves that are being found, and also as a way to be less dependent on Russian energy. Russia was supposedly getting concerned about the possibility of losing some of that energy business.

What is hilarious is that supposedly France and the UK have massive shale gas reserves, but because of OMG TEH ENVIRONMENT they would not tap them. Meanwhile they are happy to buy uber-expensive Russian gas, which I am SURE is "harvested" without damaging the environment.

I would not be surprised at all to learn that Russia sponsors at least some of the anti-shale gas movements/politicans in those countries, because frankly, going for expensive Russian imports instead of establishing self-reliance is borderline treason.

[Syt]

What is hilarious is that supposedly France and the UK have massive shale gas reserves, but because of OMG TEH ENVIRONMENT they would not tap them. Meanwhile they are happy to buy uber-expensive Russian gas, which I am SURE is "harvested" without damaging the environment.

I would not be surprised at all to learn that Russia sponsors at least some of the anti-shale gas movements/politicans in those countries, because frankly, going for expensive Russian imports instead of establishing self-reliance is borderline treason.

It's NIMBY first and foremost.



It's possibly safe, but people are worried about property values.

[KRonn]

I also find it poor policy that nations won't go for their own energy reserves for environmental reasons, but will use the energy from elsewhere which is being mined/drilled using the same methods. I guess it's a case of not in my backyard. Meanwhile they remain dependent on foreign energy sources. The US has been great for that dependency but now the US is likely to become energy independent by about 2020. Even independent with oil apparently, though that may include Mexican and Canadian oil so not fully independent but having closer and more reliable sources. But oil is a worldwide commodity and if shortages develop I think the US would still feel the effects.

[Tamas]

I also find it poor policy that nations won't go for their own energy reserves for environmental reasons, but will use the energy from elsewhere which is being mined/drilled using the same methods. I guess it's a case of not in my backyard. Meanwhile they remain dependent on foreign energy sources. The US has been great for that dependency but now the US is likely to become energy independent by about 2020. Even independent with oil apparently, though that may include Mexican and Canadian oil so not fully independent but having closer and more reliable sources. But oil is a worldwide commodity and if shortages develop I think the US would still feel the effects.

Yeah it is ignorant and cynic policy.

[Ed Anger]

I would not be surprised at all to learn that Russia sponsors at least some of the anti-shale gas movements/politicans in those countries, because frankly, going for expensive Russian imports instead of establishing self-reliance is borderline treason.

If you read RT, they ususally have a story about how bad Fracking is.

[Syt]

http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/27-02-2014/126954-yanukovych_address_nation-0/

Viktor Yanukovych stated in his address to the nation on February 27 that he still considered himself the legitimate president of the country. The text of his statement was distributed by Russian news agencies.

"I, Viktor Yanukovych, speaking to the people of Ukraine, still think of myself as the legitimate head of the Ukrainian state, elected on the basis of the free will of Ukrainian citizens. I can not stay indifferent to the tragic events in my homeland. I believe that the agreement on the settlement of the crisis in Ukraine that was signed by me and the leaders of the Ukrainian opposition in the presence of esteemed Western partners on February 21, 2014 has not been executed. Extremism is on rampage in the streets of many cities of our country. My associates and me receive death threats.

"I am forced to ask the Russian authorities to ensure my personal safety from actions of extremists. Unfortunately, all that is happening now in the Verkhovna Rada, has no legitimate character. The decisions that the Parliament takes in the absence of many members of the Party of Regions faction and members of other factions, who fear for their safety, and some were subjected to physical violence and were forced to leave the territory of Ukraine, are illegal.

"I am convinced that in these conditions, all decisions will soon prove to be ineffective and will not be fulfilled. In this situation, I officially declare my determination to fight to the end for the implementation of important compromise agreements to take Ukraine out from the deep political crisis. I urge everyone to immediately return the situation in our country in the constitutional field.

"Now it becomes obvious that the people in the south-east of Ukraine and in the Crimea do not accept anarchy and lawlessness in the country, when it is a crowd of people on squares that elects the heads of ministries. I, as the current president, did not allow Ukrainian armed forces to intervene in political events. I thereby order it now as well. Should anyone give such an order to the Armed Forces and security agencies, such orders shall be considered illegal and criminal," Viktor Yanukovych said in a statement.

[derspiess]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26364891

AP reported that they threw a flash grenade in response to a journalist's questions.

Okay, I can forgive them on this part.

[derspiess]

Still trying to figure out why these mysterious pro-Russian dudes stormed the Crimean parliament.  IIRC, that parliament already has a pro-Russian majority and was hinting of voting in favor of secession anyway.

[Syt]

The parliament appears to plan a referendum on Crimea's status, supposedly to coincide with the presidential elections in May.

[Queequeg]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26364891

AP reported that they threw a flash grenade in response to a journalist's questions.

Okay, I can forgive them on this part.

I kind of wish there was a YouTube of this. 

[crazy canuck]

Still trying to figure out why these mysterious pro-Russian dudes stormed the Crimean parliament.  IIRC, that parliament already has a pro-Russian majority and was hinting of voting in favor of secession anyway.

Probably because if they had stormed the building in Kiev they would have been killed.

[Sheilbh]

The parliament appears to plan a referendum on Crimea's status, supposedly to coincide with the presidential elections in May.

Nothing wrong with autonomy.

But there's the Budapest Protocols which the US and UK are signatories of on Ukrainian territorial integrity.

Incidentally in nice Ukrainian news Lviv and Donetsk swapped languages for the day