ECB and Inflation

[Zanza]

Mono, you are repeating this bullshit again despite this has been explained many times before. Greece now actually has a domestic surplus (thanks to very heavy austerity they implemented) - they *can* pay their civil servants, pensioners etc.

No, they can't. Their current "surplus" is only because they are not paying their domestic obligations to suppliers etc. and plunder local governments.

[Ed Anger]

Considering that they guard the EU border in an area that is rife with conflict and streams of refugees, defense spending is one of the few things I have a problem with in regards to Greece. That they don't spend it in the most effective way is something else.

I'd watch the Turks too.

[Zanza]

And this is true on both sides - for example right now the biggest obstacle to an economically viable solution is German politics.

How so? Did Germany somehow have to lean on the other 17 governments in the Eurogroup? It's just the biggest creditor with the most visible head of government and thus always in the limelight, but in the end, a lot of the other governments are in agreement with Germany's policy in this matter.

[Legbiter]

Our cabinet members are currently uttering the sentence "We are not Greece" approximately every 30 seconds.

Blood for the blood God.

[Martinus]

And this is true on both sides - for example right now the biggest obstacle to an economically viable solution is German politics.

How so? Did Germany somehow have to lean on the other 17 governments in the Eurogroup? It's just the biggest creditor with the most visible head of government and thus always in the limelight, but in the end, a lot of the other governments are in agreement with Germany's policy in this matter.

Well, I have seen cartoons of "lazy Greeks" in German tabloids that would put Das Sturmer to shame. But then your public is good at demonising entire nations, I guess.

[Valmy]

Maybe if the Greeks didn't constantly break their dinnerware after every meal they would have some money left over to pay their debts. See? You don't always have to use the 'lazy' stereotype.

[Zanza]

And this is true on both sides - for example right now the biggest obstacle to an economically viable solution is German politics.

How so? Did Germany somehow have to lean on the other 17 governments in the Eurogroup? It's just the biggest creditor with the most visible head of government and thus always in the limelight, but in the end, a lot of the other governments are in agreement with Germany's policy in this matter.

Well, I have seen cartoons of "lazy Greeks" in German tabloids that would put Das Sturmer to shame. But then your public is good at demonising entire nations, I guess.

From "the biggest obstacle is German politics" to "I've seen some cartoons of 'lazy Greeks' in German tabloids". Is that it? Lame.

[The Minsky Moment]

No Eurozone underwent as much austerity as Greece.  So what's the message that gets sent when doing that ends in rejection and failure?

When you start with a 19% deficit and 130% debt, none of your options are going to be fun.

True yet the option foisted by the troika and implemented by the prior two governments turned out to be a (predictable) disaster.  A disaster for Greece that is - the foreign private creditors who received the bulk of the money and the bailout did quite nicely of course.

[Admiral Yi]

Foisted?  I don't remember any foisting being done.  I saw no one foisted.  I saw an offer of help extended and accepted.

[The Minsky Moment]

No Eurozone underwent as much austerity as Greece.  So what's the message that gets sent when doing that ends in rejection and failure?

Greece apparently has 60 billion of uncollected taxes to collect.

Forcing a country to slash civil servants and reduce compensation is not a great formula for increasing short term bureaucratic performance.  Throwing the entire financial system into chaos and doubt and generating massive uncertainty about the currency is also not a successful formula for encouraging tax compliance.

So what's the message that gets sent when you come leeching of other people's money and then calling them names when you don't get your way when you still have lots of taxes to collect but refuse to do so?

I don't know -ask me when something like that happens.  You do realize that much of money is these various packages is used to payout interest and principal to creditors at well above market value?  It's not going right into Zorba's pocket.  If there is leeching here it is from the foreign creditors that bought Greek paper and were bailed out without loss.

As for  Greece - the national economy -  it implemented huge cuts since 2009.  You can complain I suppose that benefits started from a high base but they get a least a B+ for effort.

[The Minsky Moment]

Foisted?  I don't remember any foisting being done.  I saw no one foisted.  I saw an offer of help extended and accepted.

We don't have to speculate about what the "or else" would have been - it is playing out right now.

My point here is not to lay blame as between the troika and the Pap/Sampras governments.  My point is that the program failed.  We should not be surprised that the Greeks are balking at a new program that is more of the same.

[Admiral Yi]

We don't have to speculate about what the "or else" would have been - it is playing out right now.

You started it.

My point here is not to lay blame as between the troika and the Pap/Sampras governments.  My point is that the program failed.  We should not be surprised that the Greeks are balking at a new program that is more of the same.

The Greeks are balking, but for all the wrong reasons.  While they should be trying to negotiate the most favorable default terms possible, instead they have been asking permission to keep on borrowing *and* to increase spending.  It would be insane for the troika to accept that.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm not defending Syriza

[Admiral Yi]

Your previous post suggested an assumption of Greek sanity.

[The Minsky Moment]

Your previous post suggested an assumption of Greek sanity.

Samaras was pretty sane.  There was a lost opportunity there.