How many people in Quebec are like Viper and Grallon?

Started by Razgovory, August 15, 2013, 06:10:39 PM

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Maximus

Quote from: Grallon on August 18, 2013, 09:15:42 PM
Yet, they were all speaking the same language, they all shared the same origins and the same common founding myth (the revolution).  The gulf between them was not fundamental - it was merely ideological - and thus circumscribed.

Interestingly, it is quite telling of the differences between Americans and Canadians that you guys went to war over ' relative trivialities' while we didn't over much more profound issues.
Language is far more trivial than ideas.

dps

Quote from: Maximus on August 18, 2013, 11:45:53 PM
Quote from: Grallon on August 18, 2013, 09:15:42 PM
Yet, they were all speaking the same language, they all shared the same origins and the same common founding myth (the revolution).  The gulf between them was not fundamental - it was merely ideological - and thus circumscribed.

Interestingly, it is quite telling of the differences between Americans and Canadians that you guys went to war over ' relative trivialities' while we didn't over much more profound issues.
Language is far more trivial than ideas.

And a hell of a lot more trivial than human chattel slavery.

Grallon

#62
Quote from: dps on August 19, 2013, 05:22:56 AM
Quote from: Maximus on August 18, 2013, 11:45:53 PM
Language is far more trivial than ideas.

And a hell of a lot more trivial than human chattel slavery.



Language is fundamental to some peoples' identity - and identity, its survival, its protection, its continuation - are anything but trivial.  You both express that point of view because your own native language isn't under siege.  By the same token it's been a big fad in France, for many years now, to use all sorts of english words and expressions - they feel secure enough to do so.  See my point?

In any case we will not give up who we are to please foreigners.  And if that makes us racists and tribalists and whatever other slurs you can come up with then so be it. *shrug* 




G.
"Clearly, a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."

~Jean-François Revel

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 17, 2013, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: Grallon on August 16, 2013, 11:14:39 AM
One would imagine patriotism is something American would understand - maybe not cave rats like Raz but the others should be able to grasp the concept.

Ethnic nationalism is a fringe concept in the US.

Fringe is maybe an overstatement.  Given the nature and breadth of opposition to the immigration bill and the continuing popularity of the English as official language cause.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Maximus

Quote from: Grallon on August 19, 2013, 10:58:45 AM
In any case we will not give up who we are to please foreigners.  And if that makes us racists and tribalists and whatever other slurs you can come up with then so be it. *shrug* 

It is those who cling to such backward concepts as basing your identity on language that try to get people to change who they are.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Maximus on August 19, 2013, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: Grallon on August 19, 2013, 10:58:45 AM
In any case we will not give up who we are to please foreigners.  And if that makes us racists and tribalists and whatever other slurs you can come up with then so be it. *shrug* 

It is those who cling to such backward concepts as basing your identity on language that try to get people to change who they are.

that's what the PC-brigade claims here too, but of course they're wrong here too.

garbon

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 19, 2013, 12:00:16 PM
Quote from: Maximus on August 19, 2013, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: Grallon on August 19, 2013, 10:58:45 AM
In any case we will not give up who we are to please foreigners.  And if that makes us racists and tribalists and whatever other slurs you can come up with then so be it. *shrug* 

It is those who cling to such backward concepts as basing your identity on language that try to get people to change who they are.

that's what the PC-brigade claims here too, but of course they're wrong here too.

:console:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Maximus

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 19, 2013, 12:00:16 PM
that's what the PC-brigade claims here too, but of course they're wrong here too.
Ah the old PC-labeling tactic.

Nope, sorry. It's not the 19th century anymore. People have figured out how useless nationalism is.

Agelastus

Quote from: Maximus on August 19, 2013, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 19, 2013, 12:00:16 PM
that's what the PC-brigade claims here too, but of course they're wrong here too.
Ah the old PC-labeling tactic.

Nope, sorry. It's not the 19th century anymore. People have figured out how useless nationalism is.

How naively optimistic of you.

Moreover, I'm curious. What do you base your identity on if language is not a component of it?
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

Eddie Teach

His identity is completely wrapped up in his being a 5th columnist for the metric system.  :P
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

crazy canuck

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 19, 2013, 12:57:45 PM
His identity is completely wrapped up in his being a 5th columnist for the metric system.  :P

We have them planted all over the US.  One day, in the near future, there will be a referendum to bring civilized measurement and then they will reveal their true might.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Agelastus on August 19, 2013, 12:54:51 PM
Moreover, I'm curious. What do you base your identity on if language is not a component of it?

Why is there a need to base one's identity in the first place?  Why not just have a stable personality and some basic self-confidence?
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Maximus on August 19, 2013, 12:35:55 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 19, 2013, 12:00:16 PM
that's what the PC-brigade claims here too, but of course they're wrong here too.
Ah the old PC-labeling tactic.

Nope, sorry. It's not the 19th century anymore. People have figured out how useless nationalism is.

reality disagees with you.
Language is so much a part of identity that even within the same language different groups differentiate their use of language from other groups as a means of distinguishing themselves, of creating and maintaining group-identity. Your erlier post is a prime example of that.
Regardless: if -using your first post again- langauge isn't a basis for identity then all these people migrating to countries where people speak other langages will gladly and enthousiastically adapt. After all, it's only language. Right?!

Maximus

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 19, 2013, 01:02:39 PM
Why is there a need to base one's identity in the first place?  Why not just have a stable personality and some basic self-confidence?
Indeed. Seems like a sign of insecurity.

Maximus

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 19, 2013, 01:08:00 PM
reality disagees with you.
Language is so much a part of identity that even within the same language different groups differentiate their use of language from other groups as a means of distinguishing themselves, of creating and maintaining group-identity.
In backward areas sure.
Quote
Regardless: if -using your first post again- langauge isn't a basis for identity then all these people migrating to countries where people speak other langages will gladly and enthousiastically adapt. After all, it's only language. Right?!
Right. What's your point?