How many people in Quebec are like Viper and Grallon?

[Grey Fox]

In the last decade, we made too many compromises, that's how way to back out of them.

I am not sure what you mean.  The government ought to have cracked down on religious freedom a long time ago?

We have a tendency to accept any demand made by a religious group.

Orthodox jews of some denomination or an other can request to the DMV that they never have to deal with women clerk, test giver, etc. We accepted that. I find that totally unacceptable.

Other Jews had the YMCA tint is windows because it they could see women in the gym. We accepted that. That too was unacceptable.

[crazy canuck]

Why is it unacceptable to you.  And isnt there a human rights tribunal of some sort that can make those kinds of judgments?

[Grey Fox]

Because it undermines the most important value of Quebec society, the equality between men & women.

No? Does BC have that?

[dps]

In the last decade, we made too many compromises, that's how way to back out of them.

I am not sure what you mean.  The government ought to have cracked down on religious freedom a long time ago?

We have a tendency to accept any demand made by a religious group.

Orthodox jews of some denomination or an other can request to the DMV that they never have to deal with women clerk, test giver, etc. We accepted that. I find that totally unacceptable.

Other Jews had the YMCA tint is windows because it they could see women in the gym. We accepted that. That too was unacceptable.

I don't find the DMV thing acceptable, either, but the other issue seems to be something that should be solely  between the Y and the Jewish groups--no one else, including the government, should be involved at all, IMO.

[crazy canuck]

Because it undermines the most important value of Quebec society, the equality between men & women.

No? Does BC have that?

BC has what everyone else has - reasonable accomodation.

[Grey Fox]

That's our problem, we dont stand up.

[Ideologue]

Because it undermines the most important value of Quebec society, the equality between men & women.

No? Does BC have that?

BC has what everyone else has - reasonable accomodation.

That's wholly unreasonable accomodation.  That's insane levels of accomodation.  You tried that in America, you'd get your ass kicked, man.

Maybe you guys aren't so great after all.  Another hero has feet of clay.

[Grallon]

That's wholly unreasonable accomodation.  That's insane levels of accomodation. 

That's Canada for you in a nutshell - then English part of it.  They'd like to see us become as stupidly accomodating as they are and resent it when we refuse this kind of demeaning behavior.  That's when the accusations of racism and what not start being flung our way.  And don't forget Canada' state religion - the multiculturalism bullshit.  They have that in lieu of a collective identity - no wonder they cling to it so desperatly.



G.

[Malthus]

It is very sad to see the direction the Quebec government is going with this legislation.

[Malthus]

Because it undermines the most important value of Quebec society, the equality between men & women.

No? Does BC have that?

BC has what everyone else has - reasonable accomodation.

That's wholly unreasonable accomodation.  That's insane levels of accomodation.  You tried that in America, you'd get your ass kicked, man.

Maybe you guys aren't so great after all.  Another hero has feet of clay.

Dude. The issue was (surprise!) blown waaaaay out of proportion.

The true story is that a bunch of Hassids asked the YMCA to tint its windows so as not to 'distract' their students next door, and they initially said yes; them members of the YMCA complained, and the Y changed its decision to "no".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2007/03/19/qc-ymcawindows20070318.html

Note that this had exactly nothing to do with the government, human rights tribunals, or anything - it was a private decision made by an organization in response to a request - which, ultimately, they refused because their members found it obnoxious. The system ... works? 

[Grey Fox]

But the requests was made.

Usually it said that Freedom of Religion isn't freedom from religion. It might be right. We're looking into getting that freedom from them.

Altho, we need to wait a little bit before arguing all of this. We need to wait and find out what the government will propose, not just rumors & feelers.

I'm ok with no sign of religion to public employees. I'm not sure it's a good idea to include Teachers & Daycare workers.

[Malthus]

But the requests was made.

I hate to be difficult - but so the fuck what?

Is "making requests" something you need to regulate now? Be saved from the horrors of ... people having the balls to politely ask for stuff?! The horror! The horror! 

You guys would have a case if it was the goverment forcing the Y to tint windows in response to some Human Rights Tribunal ruling or court decision.

As it is, the whole thing is a non-issue, and if the absolute worst example of the majority being "oppressed" by religious minorities is someone making such a request (and, BTW, being turned down), does it really justify all this angst?

Usually it said that Freedom of Religion isn't freedom from religion. It might be right. We're looking into getting there.

Altho, we need to wait a little bit before arguing all of this. We need to wait and find out what the government will propose, not just rumors & feelers.

I'm ok with no sign of religion to public employees. I'm not sure it's a good idea to include Teachers & Daycare workers.

That's why I'm limiting myself to saying I don't like the direction this is going. It appears from what little is known that this isn't about 'freedom from religion', but about putting the boots to minorities under the thin guise of secularization. We will see when the details are known. The whole notion of legislation specifically to protect the majority from being annoyed by minorities is fucked up, in my opinion.

[crazy canuck]

But the requests was made.

Usually it said that Freedom of Religion isn't freedom from religion. It might be right. We're looking into getting that freedom from them.

Really?  The government is going to forbid one private group from asking another private group to take some action.  Have you guys gone insane in your zeal to protect yourself from people that wont vote for separation.

[Grey Fox]

I don't know if that's what the government will do. We'll find out soon enough, you will disagree then.

That has nothing to do with it. Don't be a viper/Liberal party member & bring everything back to that.

[Grey Fox]

But the requests was made.

I hate to be difficult - but so the fuck what?

Is "making requests" something you need to regulate now? Be saved from the horrors of ... people having the balls to politely ask for stuff?! The horror! The horror! 

When religious groups are concern? I'd say yes.