Pope on gays : "Who am I to judge?"

[Viking]

I'm not sure why Viking and Tamas are making such a fuss.

religion is one if the few things its still ok to be bigoted about (on either side)

well, it's not really bigotry if it's true. But even if it was, "still" ?



"STILL"?

[garbon]

I'm not sure why Viking and Tamas are making such a fuss.

religion is one if the few things its still ok to be bigoted about (on either side)

Is it? I'm pretty sure we're all tired of it now.

[HVC]

People like to persecute other people. If its not religion it'd be something else.

[Viking]

BTW, I'm not actually attacking religion here, I don't need to. I'm pointing out the obvious self contradictions in the new pope's liberal attitude.

[HVC]

I'm not sure why Viking and Tamas are making such a fuss.

religion is one if the few things its still ok to be bigoted about (on either side)

Is it? I'm pretty sure we're all tired of it now.

well on here mainly yes, but there's only so many topics we can have that everything gets kind of stale. But I meant in general life.

[Viking]

People like to persecute other people. Of its. Not religion it'd be something else.

If religion actually was what it claimed to be then religion it would have been central in ending persecution rather than perpetrating it. To re-quote Stephen Weinberg, good people will do good things, evil people will do evil things but it take religion to make Thomas Moore burn people alive.

[garbon]

People like to persecute other people. Of its. Not religion it'd be something else.

If religion actually was what it claimed to be then religion it would have been central in ending persecution rather than perpetrating it. To re-quote Stephen Weinberg, good people will do good things, evil people will do evil things but it take religion to make Thomas Moore burn people alive.

So true. Every time I go to church, I picture getting stoned.

[Viking]

People like to persecute other people. Of its. Not religion it'd be something else.

If religion actually was what it claimed to be then religion it would have been central in ending persecution rather than perpetrating it. To re-quote Stephen Weinberg, good people will do good things, evil people will do evil things but it take religion to make Thomas Moore burn people alive.

So true. Every time I go to church, I picture getting stoned.

Bill Maher stoned or Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani stoned? 'cause I can see ether of those being appropriate in this case.

[merithyn]

I mean seriously, Merri. I am (now) trying to avoid attacking individuals in their religion, because if somebody thinks he/she is a better person from believing in one of the deities, I am cool with that.

But how can you honestly say that the Church never claimed to be in possession of the absolute truth? I am not speaking about theories and books written about their philosophic monks, I am speaking about actual practical actions and rules taken and advocated by the Church throughout history.

I never said that. I said that that's all they were supposed to be for. That men chose to take it upon themselves to go beyond that is on them, not the religion.

Religion is, to me, a way to guide the purpose of one's life. It's to offer solace and guidance when things aren't working well. It's to help people find a better way. That this pope is saying, "Look, our goal is to guide, not judge," says a lot about him, imo. He's bringing the Catholic Church back around to what it's supposed to have been doing all along.

[garbon]

People like to persecute other people. Of its. Not religion it'd be something else.

If religion actually was what it claimed to be then religion it would have been central in ending persecution rather than perpetrating it. To re-quote Stephen Weinberg, good people will do good things, evil people will do evil things but it take religion to make Thomas Moore burn people alive.

So true. Every time I go to church, I picture getting stoned.

Bill Maher stoned or Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani stoned? 'cause I can see ether of those being appropriate in this case.

Neither.

[HVC]

Religions not the cause, it's the tool. A hammer was created to build, but can be used to kill. Do you blame the hammer when it's misused? Even in a purely atheist utopia the CC's would group together and kill the Ide's because they weren't tall enough.

[Viking]

Religions not the cause, it's the tool. A hammer was created to build, but can be used to kill. Do you blame the hammer when it's misused? Even in a purely atheist utopia the CC's would group together and kill the Ide's because they weren't tall enough.

So you argument here is that religion has nothing to do with morality then? 'cause I'm pretty sure there isn't a theologian out there that would agree with you. And yes, the atheist utopian demands that the CC understand right from wrong because it was told by god and to successfully fight against wrong because it's faith gave it the strength to do so. Why does the atheist utopian demand this? Truth in advertising, this is what the church has been claiming for itself for thousands of years now.

[The Minsky Moment]

OK

1. On which issue was Moses open for doubt?

Have you ever even read the Old Testament? 
Moses was like a model for Hamlet.  Even after God talked to him personally, he kept having doubts.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm on my phone, but again the anti-theist and hard-core fundy (in this case radical traditionalist) view is virtually indistinguishable 

Not surprising, in both cases it stems either from ignorance or deliberative refusal to approach these texts in their proper context, and instead try to read them like they are divine instruction manuals.

[Viking]

OK

1. On which issue was Moses open for doubt?

Have you ever even read the Old Testament? 
Moses was like a model for Hamlet.  Even after God talked to him personally, he kept having doubts.

Moses had doubts about himself and his self worth. When god gave him tangible evidence (something he refuses to do for me), moses had none. What Moses did not do is elucidate on the nature of truth and knowledge, no matter how much Philo likes to pretend he was the first philosopher.