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Changing The Creepy Guy Narrative

Started by garbon, July 18, 2013, 08:39:33 AM

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Jacob

Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2013, 10:52:25 AMThat's not what I said, Stevie Wonder.

Sure thing, Ted Nugent.

QuoteObviously the blame falls on the creeps themselves.  But women stopped responding to this approach, many/most of the creeps would stop trying it.

You say that, but do you have any evidence to back up that claim?

garbon

Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2013, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2013, 10:54:57 AM
Doubtful. I doubt most of these creeps have had high success rates with this method, if any success. People aren't always rational machines.

They don't need high success rates.  I've known plenty of guys who would have no problem being creeps and getting shot down by 19 girls, if it at least worked on the 20th one.

I'm just as disturbed by the aggressive creep approach as you guys are-- it just disturbs me even more when it works.

I still disagree. I could see it not working at all (and in fact, anecdotally, I don't know of cases where it has) and it still being tried. After all, there are newbie creeps every day.

And just because 1 out of 20 people will respond well to garish behavior doesn't really excuse one for acting that way.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Jacob

Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2013, 10:59:12 AMThey don't need high success rates.  I've known plenty of guys who would have no problem being creeps and getting shot down by 19 girls, if it at least worked on the 20th one.

I'm just as disturbed by the aggressive creep approach as you guys are-- it just disturbs me even more when it works.

So you're postulating that all the creepy guys have had at least one success with the creepy method, and that's why they're doing it? Because that's rather circular reasoning in that they'd have had to be successful as creeps to start being creeps.

Or are you suggesting that maybe they're being creepy because they hope it will work, even if it hasn't so far? Because if you are, then the women's reaction - at least in terms of responding positively to the approach - has little to do with the creep being a creep since the hope doesn't have to be connected to reality to be effective.

An alternate motivation could be that the creeps enjoy the act of being creepy, in which case the women's responses are secondary to the creep being creepy.

I'm suggesting that your cause and effect argument is unsound and a red herring.

Neil

High-quantity low-quality advances.  It's a legitimate tactic.  I don't think I'll single this particular form of interaction out for any special condemnation.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

garbon

Quote from: Jacob on July 18, 2013, 11:08:33 AM
Or are you suggesting that maybe they're being creepy because they hope it will work, even if it hasn't so far? Because if you are, then the women's reaction - at least in terms of responding positively to the approach - has little to do with the creep being a creep since the hope doesn't have to be connected to reality to be effective.

:yes:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

derspiess

Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2013, 11:03:09 AM
I still disagree. I could see it not working at all (and in fact, anecdotally, I don't know of cases where it has) and it still being tried. After all, there are newbie creeps every day.

I've seen it work, several times.  I wish I hadn't, for what that's worth.

QuoteAnd just because 1 out of 20 people will respond well to garish behavior doesn't really excuse one for acting that way.

Come on, dude, don't do that.  You're above the strawman thing.  I never claimed it was excusable. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

DGuller

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on July 18, 2013, 09:30:39 AM
Talking to strangers on public transport........  :o..the horror! the horror!
Agreed.  In Florida the guy would get shot, if there was public transportation in Florida.

derspiess

Quote from: Jacob on July 18, 2013, 11:08:33 AM
So you're postulating that all the creepy guys have had at least one success with the creepy method, and that's why they're doing it? Because that's rather circular reasoning in that they'd have had to be successful as creeps to start being creeps.

Nope.  I'd guess that many/most of them have either had the tactic work for them or have seen it work.  And I don't mean to say that this is the cause for all creeps to act like creeps.  If that certain portion of women were to wise up and stop responding to creepy behavior, I'm sure we'd still have some creeps.

You guys just love twisting my words in the worst possible way when it comes to subjects like women.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Malthus

Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2013, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2013, 10:54:57 AM
Doubtful. I doubt most of these creeps have had high success rates with this method, if any success. People aren't always rational machines.

They don't need high success rates.  I've known plenty of guys who would have no problem being creeps and getting shot down by 19 girls, if it at least worked on the 20th one.

I'm just as disturbed by the aggressive creep approach as you guys are-- it just disturbs me even more when it works.

I think you are mixing up two things here - making "scattergun" passes at every woman in sight (which can work) and acting all butthurt and entitled when the pass fails (which cannot).

The problem isn't the guys who have "no problem" with getting shot down by 19 girls. The problem is with the guys who definitely have a problem with being shot down.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

The Brain

There's no expectation of privacy in a public place. Creepy guys constantly talking to you? Tough titties.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

garbon

Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2013, 11:27:29 AM
Nope.  I'd guess that many/most of them have either had the tactic work for them or have seen it work.  And I don't mean to say that this is the cause for all creeps to act like creeps.  If that certain portion of women were to wise up and stop responding to creepy behavior, I'm sure we'd still have some creeps.

I don't really know what you are saying then. Creeps will still exist regardless so seems pretty much like what Jake said that the woman's response is basically a non-factor.

Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2013, 11:27:29 AM
You guys just love twisting my words in the worst possible way when it comes to subjects like women.

Perhaps you should reflect on the things you say about women.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2013, 11:28:11 AM
The problem isn't the guys who have "no problem" with getting shot down by 19 girls. The problem is with the guys who definitely have a problem with being shot down.

I don't know. I think there is still something wrong at the dudes who catcall women insofar as it makes those women uncomfortable.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Malthus

#27
Quote from: garbon on July 18, 2013, 11:30:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 18, 2013, 11:28:11 AM
The problem isn't the guys who have "no problem" with getting shot down by 19 girls. The problem is with the guys who definitely have a problem with being shot down.

I don't know. I think there is still something wrong at the dudes who catcall women insofar as it makes those women uncomfortable.

Catcalling isn't a legitimate pass. No wolf-whistling construction worker seriously hopes that the leggy blonde passing on the sidewalk is going to actually give him her number.  :lol:

What makes the guy in the article creepy isn't that he asked her what she was reading etc., it is that he didn't stop doing it when she clearly indicated she wasn't interested.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

CountDeMoney

Quote from: derspiess on July 18, 2013, 10:52:25 AM
Obviously the blame falls on the creeps themselves.  But women stopped responding to this approach, many/most of the creeps would stop trying it.

But they don't, which is why they are creeps.

MadImmortalMan

God I hate that stupid snarky writing style. Douchcanoe? Really?
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers