Boehner et. al. on Immigration Reform: "R. I. P."

[Valmy]

I find it ironic that when Republicans pander to Miami Cubans it's craven and base but when Democrats do something similar with Chicanos it's noble and courageous.

Not ironic and when has anybody ever called the Democrats noble and courageous?  Certainly nobody in this thread.

I'm also amused by the Orwellian spin of calling it immigration "reform."  Who can possibly be against reform?  Reform is always a good thing.

Immigration policy should be reformed.  Because the current policy is unenforceable and a complete and utter failure.  Anytime anybody wants to do something about that is welcome.  I have a feeling the Senate bill probably is not a vast improvement.

I am baffled that the word "reform" is Orwellian.  I mean...really?  What word should we be using?

[crazy canuck]

But it does undercut the narrative of it being a strictly partisan Dem vs Rep issue that you're constructing.

Fair enough.  But the point still stands that the principle driver for proponents is vote-getting.

Isnt it also sound policy to recognize all the people that are working and living there so that they can be full contributors to society?

[Valmy]

They've been running ads on talk radio stations here non-stop for the past month or so with Rubio and (to a lesser extent) Paul Ryan, trying to sell the Senate immigration bill as a conservative measure.  Sometimes they'll even repeat the ad back to back during the same commercial break.  It does actually make a couple good points, but overall the "amnesty now, border security later maybe if we feel like it" thing is kind of a tough sell.

Well Amnesty is cheap and easy.  Border security is seemingly almost impossible and probably really expensive.

[Admiral Yi]

I am baffled that the word "reform" is Orwellian.  I mean...really?  What word should we be using?

"The immigration bill."

Let's say the GOP had proposed a bill that would erect a huge electrified fence and make illegal immigration a capital offense.  Technically speaking, that would be a reform too, as it would change the status quo.

[derspiess]

I am baffled that the word "reform" is Orwellian.  I mean...really?  What word should we be using?

Amnesty.

[Admiral Yi]

Isnt it also sound policy to recognize all the people that are working and living there so that they can be full contributors to society?

Recognize as in grant legal residency to?  I don't know of any country in the world that grants legal residency to everyone who just shows up.

[derspiess]

Well Amnesty is cheap and easy. 

Easy?  Sure.  Cheap?  Not really, when you consider how much more social spending it will entail.

Border security is seemingly almost impossible and probably really expensive.

100% border security may well be impossible.  But we can and should do a better job at it.  But some politicians & groups simply do not want border security or are at best ambivalent, which is what causes the inaction.

[garbon]

I find it ironic that when Republicans pander to Miami Cubans it's craven and base but when Democrats do something similar with Chicanos it's noble and courageous.

This thing was pretty bipartisan, Yi. The Senate seemed to think so.

Really? Because from what I know the Dems have a majority in the senate and only 14 republicans voted in favor.

[Jacob]

I am baffled that the word "reform" is Orwellian.  I mean...really?  What word should we be using?

Yeah it's a bit puzzling. It seems a little idiosyncratic to nail your colours to that particular mast given the way bills are named and referred to in the American political process.

But I guess it makes sense - "reform" was a fine way to refer to the process when it was bipartisan and the Republicans thought they might want to support it. Now that they've decided to kill it dead, they're better off calling it something more unpleasant than "reform."

... which does kind of seem a bit Orwellian - wanting to change the language to suit the current political marching orders. The GOP has always been at war with immigration, don't you know?

[Valmy]

14 is a pretty good chunk

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah it's a bit puzzling. It seems a little idiosyncratic to nail your colours to that particular mast given the way bills are named and referred to in the American political process.

Calling it the Immigration Reform Act of 2013 would be fine if that were the official title.  But people are using immigration reform generically, not as a brand name.

But I guess it makes sense - "reform" was a fine way to refer to the process when it was bipartisan and the Republicans thought they might want to support it. Now that they've decided to kill it dead, they're better off calling it something more unpleasant than "reform."

... which does kind of seem a bit Orwellian - wanting to change the language to suit the current political marching orders. The GOP has always been at war with immigration, don't you know?

You do realize Boehner and I are two separate people, don't you?  He's not the one objecting to the language, I am.

[fhdz]

14 is a pretty good chunk

Yep.

[fhdz]

Well Amnesty is cheap and easy. 

Easy?  Sure.  Cheap?  Not really, when you consider how much more social spending it will entail.

They're working for us. They should be receiving some benefits.

[garbon]

14 is a pretty good chunk

Of course it means that the bulk of Republicans in the senate were against it...

[fhdz]

14 is a pretty good chunk

Of course it means that the bulk of Republicans in the senate were against it...

"Bipartisan" doesn't mean "everyone votes for it". It means that even among the opposition party there is a decent chunk of support.