Arab Spring, Round 2

[DGuller]

Incidentally there's no links between the Brotherhood and any terrorism.

Give it time. There will be.

[Tamas]

At this time, they sort of force their hands.   What sort of peaceful recourse is left?  If the army seized power to overthrow an election, butchered 1,000 protesters, outlawed a political party with penalties ranging from 5 years to death I'd be kind of pissed as well.  But few people care, since the victims are Muslim.

They're not just a political party though. They've survived before - and this is why they've got a closed, secretive membership system - but they've got 300 000 members, most of whom are mainly interested in the charitable work. I imagine, as they've done before, they'll go underground and survive.

Some will see it as another reason they should never have got involved in politics, but others will certainly radicalise. I'd be surprised if the Brotherhood as a whole did.

I didn't know that Ghandi executed leaders of protests.

Even she never went that far.

Unfortunately I think it is pretty much guaranteed that if the MB ever gets close to power again, they will not waste time doing the soft crawl to shaping the country their way, like they were doing (rather impotently, I might add) with Mursi.
They will replicate the methods used against them currently.

In other words, the Middle East will remain the violent shithole it has been the past three thousand years.

[Viking]

Incidentally there's no links between the Brotherhood and any terrorism.

Naturally the founding of Al-Qaeda by MB members and the MBs affiliation with HAMAS don't actually count as links? If you  had said something like "Since 1952 the MB has tried to disassociate itself from violence and terror, except when directed at Israel" you would be making a more nuanced and factually accurate statement.

[Razgovory]

I'm kinda curous guys.  What are you supposed to do when being part of a protest will net you five years and leading one will get you an execution (if you aren't just slaughtered in the street by the army"

[Viking]

I'm kinda curous guys.  What are you supposed to do when being part of a protest will net you five years and leading one will get you an execution (if you aren't just slaughtered in the street by the army"

[Sheilbh]

Naturally the founding of Al-Qaeda by MB members and the MBs affiliation with HAMAS don't actually count as links? If you  had said something like "Since 1952 the MB has tried to disassociate itself from violence and terror, except when directed at Israel" you would be making a more nuanced and factually accurate statement.

Not in this context. It's like Fine Gael banning Fianna Fail after a CIRA bomb.

Ironically many Salafi groups are actually quite keen on the new government and collaborating with it such as the Nour Party.

I don't know what's more depressing. The utterly predictable outcome of a military coup or that so many Egyptians are happy with their new police state

[DGuller]

I'm kinda curous guys.  What are you supposed to do when being part of a protest will net you five years and leading one will get you an execution (if you aren't just slaughtered in the street by the army"

Wait for elections.

[Viking]

Naturally the founding of Al-Qaeda by MB members and the MBs affiliation with HAMAS don't actually count as links? If you  had said something like "Since 1952 the MB has tried to disassociate itself from violence and terror, except when directed at Israel" you would be making a more nuanced and factually accurate statement.

Not in this context. It's like Fine Gael banning Fianna Fail after a CIRA bomb.

Ironically many Salafi groups are actually quite keen on the new government and collaborating with it such as the Nour Party.

I don't know what's more depressing. The utterly predictable outcome of a military coup or that so many Egyptians are happy with their new police state

You said there was no link. There is a link. Before they were running around murdering government ministers and various other nefarious activities. Since then the Muslim Brotherhood has associated itself with organizations with similar political objectives in different arab and muslim countries; many of these organizations, including HAMAS, are straight up terrorists.

[jimmy olsen]

And the struggle continues in Libya:

Libyan army, militias clash in Benghazi

Clashes between Libyan troops and an armed group in the eastern city of Benghazi have killed at least nine people and wounded at least 47 during a military operation, the Interior Ministry said.

The Libyan army on Monday declared a state of alert in Benghazi and summoned all troops to report for duty after a battle with Ansar al-Sharia fighters erupted.

Gunfire and explosions could be heard and thick smoke rose from the Ras Obeida area of the city. The army ordered residents to stay off the streets, witnesses told the AFP news agency.

Fighting broke out when an army special forces unit chased a suspect into an area where Ansar al-Sharia operates its own checkpoints, city security officials said. the group was blamed for the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi a year ago when Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were killed.

Rival militia groups withdrew from Tripoli last week after clashes killed more than 40 people when protesters marched to one of the fighters' bases to demand they leave the capital.

Militia defiance

The clashes came as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and British Foreign Secretary William Hague met in London with Libyan Prime Minister Ali Zeidan, who was briefly abducted in Tripoli last month by Ansar al-Sharia.

Kerry said after the meeting that the U.S. and Britain would continue to support Libya, after weeks of violence in the country.

"The prime minister informed us of a transformation that he believes is beginning to take place and could take place because the people of Libya have spoken out and pushed back against the militias," Kerry said.

"So this is a moment of opportunity where there's a great deal of economic challenge, there's a great deal of security challenge."

The government has hired some of Libya's armed groups to provide security, but they remain loyal to their commanders or tribes and often clash in disputes over territory or personal feuds.

The Libyan government has struggled to restore order as fighters, most of whom were among the rebels who fought in the war that toppled Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, have defied the new military's attempts to disarm them.

I like Kerry's attempt to put a smiley face on a very bad situation.  He should have gone with "Did you know in Chinese the ideogram for Libya is made up of the characters for danger and opportunity?"

It really doesn't seem that bad to me, it's not exactly Iraq, let alone Afghanistan or Syria.

[Savonarola]

Tunisia's Islamist prime minister resigns amid nationwide protests

Tunisia's premier handed in his resignation Thursday to make way for an interim government of independents under a plan to end months of political deadlock and mounting social unrest, the state news agency said.

Just days before the third anniversary of the overthrow of veteran strongman Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in the first of the Arab Spring uprisings, Prime Minister Ali Larayedh was due to step down under a plan drawn up by mediators to put the transition back on track.

His resignation is expected to lead to his replacement within 15 days by premier designate Mehdi Jomaa at the head of a government of technocrats that will lead the country to fresh elections under a new constitution.

The powerful UGTT trade union confederation, which has been the lead mediator in the six-month crisis between the moderate Islamist-led government and the mainly secular opposition, had called on the premier to step down by Thursday under the terms of its reconciliation roadmap.

The Ennahda party has been under mounting pressure to relinquish the grip on power it won after the uprising in elections to a constituent assembly, as the economy has stagnated and social unrest has intensified.

Events in fellow Arab Spring country Egypt, where elected President Mohamed Morsi was overthrown by the army in July after a single year in power, have compounded the pressure.

The approval of a new constitution, which Ennahda had also demanded in return for handing over power, is on track to meet an agreed deadline of Jan. 14, the uprising's third anniversary, with the assembly voting on it intensively article by article.

The new charter had been delayed for months by the withdrawal of opposition assembly members in protest of the July killing of one of their own by suspected jihadists in July.

But their return has seen compromises swiftly reached on many of the most divisive provisions, including gender equality and the role of Islam.

On Thursday, the constituent assembly agreed to an article setting a goal of 50-50 representation between the sexes in all elected bodies, in keeping with the secularism that Tunisia adopted at independence which has given Tunisian women the most extensive rights in the region.

The quickening political reconciliation moves come against a backdrop of an intensification of the social unrest that was a key catalyst for the 2011 uprising.

Central Tunisia in particular, where a young street vendor sparked the uprising by setting himself on fire in protest at his impoverished circumstances, has seen a spate of violent protests in recent days.

Late on Wednesday, several hundred protesters went demonstrated in the town of Feriana, in the central Kasserine region, attacking a tax office, a police post, a bank and a municipal building, residents and a policeman told Agence France-Presse.

The UGTT called a general strike in Kasserine on Wednesday to protest at the persistent economic crisis gripping the town.

Nationwide, growth was less than 3 percent last year, insufficient to bring down the country's unemployment rate, which exceeds 30 percent.

That shows considerably more dedication to the cause than taping a dollar bill over your mouth.  The Arabs are much better at building awareness than our domestic protesters.

[Admiral Yi]

Were you unaware of the self immolation dude until now? 

[Savonarola]

Were you unaware of the self immolation dude until now? 

I didn't read the article carefully enough; I thought this was a new self-immolation dude.   

[Savonarola]

It wouldn't be an legitimate Egyptian election unless some people died:

Violence mars Egypt constitution vote

At least 11 people were killed in confrontations between Muslim Brotherhood supporters and police on Tuesday, as Egyptians voted on a draft constitution that may set the stage for a presidential bid by army chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.

An additional 28 people were wounded in clashes between security forces and protesters loyal to former President Mohamed Morsi, according to Egypt's Health Ministry. The ministry says the deaths occurred in Cairo, the adjacent province of Giza and two provinces south of the capital, Bani Suef and Sohag. 

The election marks the first time Egyptians have gone to the polls since the military deposed Morsi in July.

The Brotherhood, Egypt's largest political force, was recently banished from political life. But that has not stopped the group from calling for a boycott and protests over the draft constitution, which deletes Islamic language written into the basic law approved a year ago when Morsi was still in office. It also strengthens state bodies that defied him: the army, the police and the judiciary.

On Tuesday, Brotherhood supporters staged protests in at least four cities, with police arresting 65 people who were trying to obstruct voting, security officials said.

While a state crackdown has erased many freedoms won by the 2011 uprising against President Hosni Mubarak, anticipation of a more stable government catapulted Egypt's stock market Tuesday to its highest level since Mubarak's downfall. In its fourth straight day of gains, the main index exceeded its January 2011 peak.

The referendum is a milestone in the political transition plan the army-backed government has billed as a path back to democracy, even as it presses a fierce crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood.

A presidential election could follow as early as April. A senior European diplomat on Tuesday said Sisi would probably announce his candidacy in the next few days — a prospect that will delight supporters but could stir more conflict with his Islamist opponents.

With little or no signs of a campaign against the draft constitution — one moderately Islamist party says its activists were arrested while campaigning for a no-vote — it is expected to pass easily, backed by many Egyptians who staged mass protests on June 30 against Morsi and the Brotherhood before his removal.

"We are here for two reasons: to eradicate the Brotherhood and take our rights in the constitution," said Gamal Zeinhom, a 54-year-old voter standing in line at a Cairo polling station.

Others cited a desire to bring stability to Egypt after three years of turmoil.

Sisi ousted Morsi, Egypt's first freely elected head of state, on July 3. His Islamist opponents say he is the mastermind of a coup that kindled the worst internal strife in Egypt's modern history and revived an oppressive police state.

But after a failed experiment with democracy, many are weary of the upheaval that has gripped this nation of 85 million and shattered its economy. They see Sisi, 59, as someone who can stabilize and protect Egypt from what local media depict as foreign and domestic conspiracies to divide the nation.

Earlier this week, the International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), a Geneva-based group that works to uphold the rule of law, described the referendum as highly flawed.

"The referendum campaign has taken place within a context of fear, intimidation and repression, calling into question the fairness of the entire process," it said in a statement.

The government recently escalated its crackdown on the Brotherhood, declaring it a "terrorist organization" on Dec. 25. Al-Qaeda-inspired militants have stepped up attacks on security forces since Morsi's ouster.

While the government has linked the attacks to the Brotherhood, the group has repeatedly said it is a non-violent movement committed to peaceful resistance to the state.

We want you, Big Brother

[Sheilbh]

The constitution (which it's worth noting is more Islamist than the democratic option) in Egypt has been approved by 98%, here's a piece from Al Ahram which I think captures the mood:

Why the constitution?
Lubna Abdel Aziz

What a hard-fought, drawn-out, brutal battle that was! For three long years, since 25 January 2011, the people of Egypt have engaged in a virtual war against the Monstrous Brotherhood from within and against the rest of the world from without. Taking their destiny in their hands, the people of Egypt have now declared victory.

It came upon us slowly, stealthily, silently. Basking in a state of euphoria after ousting a despotic ruler, we found ourselves in the throes of a ruthless, extremist terrorist rule, which gloried in the sight of blood, looting and burning churches, badgering and killing Muslims in the name of a religion that forbids the taking of human life.

Within six months, revolted by this inhuman conduct, the people of Egypt took to the streets, filling bridges, squares and parks in every city and town and village, crying "foul".

Out of nowhere appeared a man of the people, brimming with humility, compassion and courage, with a voice as soothing and caressing as the gentle rains from heaven, alleviating every pain, healing every wound, wiping every tear. Backed by the army, General Abdel-Fattah Al-Sisi stood behind the citizens. The tyrant Morsi was removed from office, incarcerated with his cronies.

We are a people of religious spirit and strong convictions, and no one is to tell us differently.

We swam through a sea of deception and corruption and found the shore.

We walked through a dark and endless tunnel and found the light.

We flung the rubbish overboard and restored chaos into harmony.

We have defied the Western powers, bent on forcing the MB down our throats. We scratched their agenda and dashed their dreams.

Three years of our lives and our history have been lost. Now we must start anew, in search of our democracy.

Once again, we start from the beginning, armed with a new constitution to ensure that no other form of government will suppress, smother or squash us.

Why the constitution?

Order and a sense of safety and security are innate in human nature. Even in the early days a leader, chief or high-priest was selected to protect and safeguard the group. Every country needs a constitution, a charter, a set of principles, a body of rules which regulate the conduct through which governmental power is exercised. It is a sort of guide to the government to maintain discipline, to serve the people and do their bidding.

Government belongs to the people. The constitution must be obeyed by both people and government.

Egypt is well familial with constitutional law going as far back as 1923. This fine constitution would have been retained were it not for the different rulers who would re-write constitutions to fit their needs and desires. With the removal of the monarchy in 1952, a new constitution was drafted in 1956, followed by several changes, custom-made for each new ruler.

The catastrophe occurred in 2012 when the new MB government established a reprehensible constitution that robbed the people of their rights, transferring all the power to the governing body. That is when the alarm bells started ringing, warning the people of Egypt that this was not the democratic rule they sought.

It has been said that the American constitution of 1787 is the best written social and political document in history. Fresh out of the yoke of British colonialism, the American Framers of the Constitution produced a brilliant philosophic, judicial charter that limits the power of the various organs of the government, affording the citizens human and legal rights as never before. It is hailed for its simplicity, brevity and precision of its language.

The French constitution of 1875 contains no provisions regarding the method of elections, the term of office and totally ignored the power of the judiciary.

Another constitution praised by experts is the constitution of India. Far too long and bulky, containing 444, articles it is nonetheless a remarkable specimen of excellence.

While most countries have written constitutions, Britain, New Zealand and Israel are the only three countries without a written constitution. The English Magna Carta of 1215 has been the basis of British rule as well as several other constitutions including that of the US, which in some instances has copied it word for word.

We have a constitution! After weeks and weeks of toil and trouble, a 50-member assembly headed by Amr Moussa, the former Arab League chief, has produced the finest constitution Egypt has ever known. In fact it is favourably compared with the world's leading constitutions. Most important in our new constitution is the undisputed equal rights of Christians, the most ancient of citizens alive today.

We have stood by for decades while the governing powers have seized our rights as citizens and human beings. But we had a rendez-vous with destiny. We are survivors. While others have faded and disappeared from history, we the people of Egypt are still here, overcoming every obstacle, enduring every hardship. We have survived the autocratic rule of Hosni Mubarak, followed by the bloody, heavy-handed MB. We have survived even without the US military aid and are deeply grateful to Obama for teaching us our worth. We shall overcome peril and sorrow, and yes, we shall never surrender.

We have changed our destiny. We have altered history.

We have dug the foundation and laid the cornerstone for our future.

The future is near, shining bright, burning with excitement, glowing with hope.

"Government without constitution is power without right". Thomas Paine (1787-1809)

[Razgovory]

That shows considerably more dedication to the cause than taping a dollar bill over your mouth.  The Arabs are much better at building awareness than our domestic protesters.

Don't worry, Ide and I are going to fix that soon.