Women as Army Rangers and Navy Seals by 2016

[alfred russel]

My point is that physical ability is rarely the only component of a job, but is often a primary component of a job such that the odds of any physically relatively disadvantaged set of humans trying to get one of those jobs when competing for a finite number of spots against a set of humans who are as a whole far above the mean in physical capability is incredibly unlikely.

In other words, no matter how smart, incredible a leader, and great at reading defense some woman is, there is no chance she is ever going to be able to out-compete the men who are competing for a spot on an NFL roster.

I suspect the same is almost as true for something like a Navy Seal, where even amazingly fit men often cannot meet the physical requirements necessary to make it through. Probably not quite as extreme, but pretty close.

Enough so, in any case, that if some women do make it through, I suspect it will only be because they were helped, either overtly through a stated change in the selection standards, or covertly.

Other SF jobs may be different - Green Beret's, for example, may have very different physical needs and selection requirements than Navy Seals.

It is worth asking why it is so tough.

I read a story of a Seal recounting a story from training where they had to tie a series of knots at the bottom of a pool. It was a very challenging task because of how long you had to stay underwater. One guy stayed under water so long that as he was tying the last knot he drowned and had to be revived. When he regained consciousness, he asked if he had finished the last knot. The instructor told him he was an idiot: he couldn't care less about the knots, the point was to see how far he could push himself, and he passed.

If you wanted to run the same test with women, an equivalent test would just have less knots to tie.

[Berkut]

That is a good point - but it would be hard to separate the insanely tough physical challenges designed to find out who is insanely tough from those designed to weed out those who are not incredibly fit.

[Ed Anger]

Women need to be birthing the next generation of soldiers. And fixing me a sammwich.

[Admiral Yi]

If you wanted to run the same test with women, an equivalent test would just have less knots to tie.

I don't see why for this particular test.  Lung capacity/oxygen need doesn't vary between men and women AFAIK.

[Ed Anger]

They would win the nag test.

I TOLDYOU TO PUT THE TRASH OUT. WHY WON'T YOUPUT THE TRASH OUT. THE TRASH SMELLS. PUT IT OUT. OH MY GOD YOUJUST WON'T LISTEN.

[Jacob]

You're trying really hard Ed, and you do get credit for that, but I don't think you're going to have any luck with that trolling.

[11B4V]

They would win the nag test.

I TOLDYOU TO PUT THE TRASH OUT. WHY WON'T YOUPUT THE TRASH OUT. THE TRASH SMELLS. PUT IT OUT. OH MY GOD YOUJUST WON'T LISTEN.

hehe 

[Ed Anger]

You're trying really hard Ed, and you do get credit for that, but I don't think you're going to have any luck with that trolling.

I know. It's in my contract.

[The Brain]

I was just about to respond angrily.

[Ed Anger]

I was just about to respond angrily.

[11B4V]

I cant wait to get the first hand reports from Siege, when they start leting them in line infantry units.

[Neil]

If the job requires certain physical standards, then it requires certain physical standards. Whether you're male or female should be irrelevant.

But for that to work, the standards have to be based on the job requirements. To date that seems to be the limitation in the US.

It's not irrelevent.

I know, and that has to change.

Why?

Because a person's gender has no bearing on their ability to do the job?

But that really isn't true.  Biology is biology, and eventually women tend to get knocked up, at which point they are utterly useless.

[Kleves]

I do not believe that women should be given jobs simply because they are women. I believe that the criteria for the job should be set so that the best person for the job can be given it. If physical prowess is the best criteria for the position, then you're not likely to find many women in that job. But to block them simply because they are women is, in my opinion, unacceptable.

I don't think anyone really disagrees. I think the concern is that, in five years no woman has become a Navy Seal, some (not necessarily you) will see that as evidence of discrimination, and that, eventually, this will lead to lower standards and less effective special forces teams, all out of a desire to be politically correct.

[Jacob]

I cant wait to get the first hand reports from Siege, when they start leting them in line infantry units.

It'll be funny

[lustindarkness]