25 years old and deep in debt

[DGuller]

5. It is a myth and a lie that you should not work at all during college. College is easy and anyone should be able to take 12-15 hours a semester while still working part time. Use this part time money to subsidize living expenses, don't take out tens of thousands of dollars to live in the trendiest apartments on campus, that is madness.

It depends on what you study.  I went to an engineering college, and I was spent just from studying.  I did work as a tutor/TA, but that was at most 10 hours a week.  If I worked part time, my grades would've suffered, and  a lower GPA would definitely hurt my chances of getting hired (which was a difficult enough process as it was).

[Berkut]

I mean, sure, it's satisfying to blame individuals for their foolish choices, but when the numbers are that high I think it indicates a systemic issue. What's going on that so many people make such bad choices? It seems like that might be worth addressing.

As others have pointed out, she attended a private university which is much more expensive than other alternatives.  I think Malthus said it best when he compared the choice to go to an expensive top rated school vs a less expensive school as a kind of gamble.

But as Jacob kinda said and I spoke to anecdotally earlier, the kids that go to the cheaper schools don't seem to have much hope either.  After all, employers still often like to select those that went to better schools - so on average you get a kid who spent 4 years at a cheap school who then finds himself without many appealing job prospects.

Meh, I don't even think that is largely true. Maybe for some small fraction of jobs, but mostly employer want you to have a relevant degree, and not be an obvious douchebag in the interview.

Once you get your first job, where you went to school in most cases doesn't mean a damn thing anymore - what matters is how you perform and what you can do.

The idea that you MUST go to some elite and private university to succeed is largely bullshit.

[Berkut]

Yeah ok that is not what I am saying but there is a way do it while giving yourself crippling debt and ways to do it where you don't.  Be smart don't be an idiot.  But I thought you just said you should use college to delay your life and goof off and not because you picked a path you want to pursue.

I didnt say you should, I said some people do.

That would be concerning Tyr, if it were remotely true.

Luckily, it mostly is not, and hence largely irrelevant.

How?
A lot of people here have been saying not to go to a pricey uni and to instead go somewhere cheaper.
Going to the best school you can should never be a gamble, it should be just plain common sense, that money rears its head  even with regards to living costs is already enough of an impediment, but that tuition would be such a major concern....its just wrong.

How?

You said that people have to make "major life choices" or something like that based on their ability to afford this school or that school.

That is simply not true.

A "major life choice" is not deciding between Stanford and UCLA, it is deciding what career you want to be in, and in 99% of cases, you can go to a variety of different schools and do just fine in your career. If you cannot afford Stanford, but you can afford UC - San Diego, then go to UCSD. Your long term prospects are not going to be largely different, assuming you are academically accomplished enough to get into Stanford to begin with.

It is a false dilemma - you don't have to go to a super expensive school to get an excellent education and go on to be successful. Whether or not you are successful in the US has very little to do with which school you got your degree from anyway. It helps some, certainly, but is hardly determinative.

[MadImmortalMan]

Don't think medicine is a panacea. They still have to pay a hundred grand a year for malpractice insurance. Plus, they aren't all making owner-practice money. There are tons of docs who cannot pay their student loans.

[Capetan Mihali]

I believe this is her so she got a BA but I don't know in what:

http://www.miami.muohio.edu/cdp_lists/pdfs/12_09/Commence_Ohio.pdf

Katherine Elizabeth Brotherton

She's a librarian.

Librarians make tons of money. If I had to do it all over again I'd have gotten a Masters in Library Science.

Like law school, the ML(I)S market is totally swamped now.  It's definitely not easy to find a decent library job these days.

[DGuller]

I went out on a date once with a fourth year medical school student, who just discovered that she absolutely hated medicine and couldn't see herself working as a doctor. I bet her student loans wouldn't be paid off so quickly.

[ulmont]

That median lawyer salary is deeply misleading.  First, that's all lawyer salaries; the median starting is more like $60k.  Second, te legal market is sorted into two tiers, one with a median starting salary at $40ish and one at $130ish.  Legal work is not a good bet. 

[Ideologue]

Garbon, how can you say you are not making the argument education is useless when in the next breath you say that people graduating have no hope.

Because that is how they feel. I don't really think it can be the reality that none or even most of them have no hope, but feelings don't have to accurately reflect reality.

Besides does education exist solely to net one a good job? If that's the case, why isn't education more closely targeted to actual job skills?

A shockingly good fucking question.

[Ideologue]

@teach

Damn straight. Went to two public universities that also happen to be top 50 schools in nation. And did it all for 1/10th of what this girl took out on loans.

OK, but, like I told Beeb, you're an Old.

Of course what you paid is peanuts in comparison to the average new grad, let alone the average matriculant, in 2012.

That said, I wish they'd get more representative people to feature in these stories.  Someone with $50k or $60k in debt and washing dishes is a little more median, but highlights the same problem.  I think news idiots prefer the sensationalism and comment-generating features of top quintile debt.  It's all the same problem--but unfortunately you get this, no offense, frankly stupid reaction from 40 year olds who went to college in 1990.  I DIDN'T PAY THAT MY GOD WHAT A RIDICULOUS HUMAN BEING.  Try applying high single and often two figure percentage increases per year for over a decade, mathemagician, see what happens to your obviously more responsibly borrowed tuition.

And to CC, while I'm at it: it's not solely that people don't understand the debt they'll be in before they take it out, they just don't understand how fiercely, monstrously competitive and indeed hostile the employment market for new grads is and has been for five years (or more).  It's not that someone gets a liberal arts degree and thinks they can pay it off comfortably waiting tables.  They assume that if the product is being offered, at a pretty high price, it must be worth something--why else would the authorities they've trusted all their lives be offering it to tens and hundreds of thousands of people?

To rephrase, what people expect are fucking jobs commensurate with their education level and their debt level.  They ain't getting them.  And it can be argued that they're pretty dumb for getting degrees that have negative returns on investment.  Fine, but 18-22 year olds are known for being pretty dumb.  Do we really want a society that rewards educators and lenders for preying on the stupidest parts of our society?  Do we want a society where the government helps them do it?

Because that's where we're at now.

[Ideologue]

That median lawyer salary is deeply misleading.  First, that's all lawyer salaries; the median starting is more like $60k.  Second, te legal market is sorted into two tiers, one with a median starting salary at $40ish and one at $130ish.  Legal work is not a good bet.

Your forgot about the tier with a median starting salary at $0ish.

[katmai]

That median lawyer salary is deeply misleading.  First, that's all lawyer salaries; the median starting is more like $60k.  Second, te legal market is sorted into two tiers, one with a median starting salary at $40ish and one at $130ish.  Legal work is not a good bet.

Your forgot about the tier with a median starting salary at $0ish.

That's what you get for going to SC school of law.

[Eddie Teach]

That median lawyer salary is deeply misleading.  First, that's all lawyer salaries; the median starting is more like $60k.  Second, te legal market is sorted into two tiers, one with a median starting salary at $40ish and one at $130ish.  Legal work is not a good bet.

Your forgot about the tier with a median starting salary at $0ish.

That's what you get for going to SC school of law.

And for not taking the bar.

[Ideologue]

I make the exact same as the 150 or so people around me who have their licenses.  Actually, thanks to the bonus structure for my team, I make about 10% more.

Anyway, I just filed to take it in February.  What could go wrong?

[Eddie Teach]

What could go wrong?

You could pass it and become a lawyer. 

[Darth Wagtaros]

I believe this is her so she got a BA but I don't know in what:

http://www.miami.muohio.edu/cdp_lists/pdfs/12_09/Commence_Ohio.pdf

Katherine Elizabeth Brotherton

She's a librarian.

Librarians make tons of money. If I had to do it all over again I'd have gotten a Masters in Library Science.

Like law school, the ML(I)S market is totally swamped now.  It's definitely not easy to find a decent library job these days.

Now yes, but back in the mid 90s it was sought after.