25 years old and deep in debt

[crazy canuck]

Personally, I think it's a pretty big issue for the US.

It looks like a significant number of young people are coming out of university with huge debt, no prospects, and little hope. These are the people who're supposed to be building the future of the country.

I mean, sure, it's satisfying to blame individuals for their foolish choices, but when the numbers are that high I think it indicates a systemic issue. What's going on that so many people make such bad choices? It seems like that might be worth addressing.

Nobody sits them down and says, "After five years your monthly payment will be $$, and rent in this area is around $$$, so between loan payments and normal cost of living you should plan on making around $$$$ per month."

Actually that is not true.  There are some professional programs that do exactly that to ensure the students kow exactly what they are getting into in terms of financial obligations before they accept their offers of admission.

The practice may not be widespreed but it is not accurate to say that nobody does it.

[garbon]

I mean, sure, it's satisfying to blame individuals for their foolish choices, but when the numbers are that high I think it indicates a systemic issue. What's going on that so many people make such bad choices? It seems like that might be worth addressing.

As others have pointed out, she attended a private university which is much more expensive than other alternatives.  I think Malthus said it best when he compared the choice to go to an expensive top rated school vs a less expensive school as a kind of gamble.

But as Jacob kinda said and I spoke to anecdotally earlier, the kids that go to the cheaper schools don't seem to have much hope either. After all, employers still often like to select those that went to better schools - so on average you get a kid who spent 4 years at a cheap school who then finds himself without many appealing job prospects.

That is a different argument.  Jacob's point was that high debt loads was a systemic problem.  It is a problem of high cost institutions but I dont know that it is systemic across all insitutions.

Your argument is that education is worthless anyway which I am also doubtful is correct.

My argument is not that education is worthless but rather that...

It looks like a significant number of young people are coming out of university with huge debt, no prospects, and little hope.

That if you remove the huge debt piece of Jacob's statement - you still have kids coming out of cheaper universities with no prospects and little hope. And if anything they have even less hope/prospects as they don't even have a flashy degree as a signifier.

[garbon]

Actually that is not true.  There are some professional programs that do exactly that to ensure the students kow exactly what they are getting into in terms of financial obligations before they accept their offers of admission.

The practice may not be widespreed but it is not accurate to say that nobody does it.

Of course that rather misses his point which is that there is a widespread lack of knowledge about handling such basic finances - especially for teens who are entering into such financial quagmires.

[crazy canuck]

Garbon, how can you say you are not making the argument education is useless when in the next breath you say that people graduating have no hope.

[garbon]

Garbon, how can you say you are not making the argument education is useless when in the next breath you say that people graduating have no hope.

Because that is how they feel. I don't really think it can be the reality that none or even most of them have no hope, but feelings don't have to accurately reflect reality.

Besides does education exist solely to net one a good job? If that's the case, why isn't education more closely targeted to actual job skills?

[crazy canuck]

Actually that is not true.  There are some professional programs that do exactly that to ensure the students kow exactly what they are getting into in terms of financial obligations before they accept their offers of admission.

The practice may not be widespreed but it is not accurate to say that nobody does it.

Of course that rather misses his point which is that there is a widespread lack of knowledge about handling such basic finances - especially for teens who are entering into such financial quagmires.

No the point he was making is that nobody tries to explain such things and that is false.  You also assume that people are incurring these debts out of some kind of negligence or ignorance.  Not sure what evidence you base that on other than your own prejudices and preferences.

[garbon]

No the point he was making is that nobody tries to explain such things and that is false.

Why would he want to make such an easily refutable point? It's more sensible to take his statement as conveying that there is a widespread lack of knowledge.

You also assume that people are incurring these debts out of some kind of negligence or ignorance.  Not sure what evidence you base that on other than your own prejudices and preferences.

I base that on the fact that no one actually provided my sisters and I on any training like that except for my parents.  And then all of the people I know who have made poor decisions as they didn't really think through / thoroughly understand everything they were getting themselves into (and who does).  I mean really its sort of endemic to America's whole culture of credit and I don't think its because we just don't care but rather that few people are given good instruction on some of this stuff.  I think I'm pretty well equipped to speak about 20somethings.

[garbon]

I mean look at the girl who wrote this article. She managed to get two degrees and if my search was correct was on the dean's list for undergrad.  And yet, she thought it was a good idea to take out $200,000 in loans before she was 25.  I'm not sure what else could be the cause there beyond fundamental ignorance on what would be a good idea as far as her life and finances. 

And I'm not blaming her but rather those around her who let her down which include her earlier education, her cosigner and the lenders.

[Eddie Teach]

Kids are gambling that if they pay for a prestigious university - hard to get into and expensive - it will pan out in the form of a high-paying career that will allow them to pay off those loans and then some.

That wasn't her problem, but rather paying for a non-prestigious university that was just as expensive. 

Anybody who pays to go to a private school that isn't on the Ivy/Stanford/Chicago tier is wasting their money. State schools will do just as well.

[Valmy]

No the point he was making is that nobody tries to explain such things and that is false.  You also assume that people are incurring these debts out of some kind of negligence or ignorance.  Not sure what evidence you base that on other than your own prejudices and preferences.

Not much really.  Garbon only has a highly documented and endlessly discussed social and economic problem that is slowly reaching crisis proportions to back him up.

[Valmy]

My eldest nephew graduated high school this year.  He's off to study theatre.

He's somewhat sensible about it - attending a local college for two years, then plans to transfer to university.  His parents are reasonably well off so he's not going to accumulate a lot, or any, debt.  And he knows acting jobs are hard to come by, so instead he's aiming to be a drama professor.  Apparently no one told him jobs in academia are almost as hard to find as acting jobs.

Where is he doing this?  I hope in Toronto or some other urban center where a career in theatre is viable.  Hopefully he can do lots of work in theatre while he is studying.  Also there are lots of things to do in theatre besides just be an actor.

[katmai]

@teach

Damn straight. Went to two public universities that also happen to be top 50 schools in nation. And did it all for 1/10th of what this girl took out on loans.

[CountDeMoney]

Anybody who pays to go to a private school that isn't on the Ivy/Stanford/Chicago tier is wasting their money. State schools will do just as well.

Some people want an education tailored to their particular religious affiliations.

I sincerely doubt Mormons that go to BYU, Catholics that go to Notre Dame or Georgetown, or Baptists that go to Baylor think they're wasting their money.

[sbr]

@teach

Damn straight. Went to two public universities that also happen to be top 50 schools in nation. And did it all for 1/10th of what this girl took out on loans.

How long ago?

[CountDeMoney]

@teach

Damn straight. Went to two public universities that also happen to be top 50 schools in nation. And did it all for 1/10th of what this girl took out on loans.

How long ago?

Probably when George Michael was still in a group.